Is it possible to fix maxim spam before GCS?

Guys, are you serious here talking about Maxim's nerf? This machine gun - shit (worse only MG-34)
Why is there no talk about who spam three MG-42?
No talk of Vickers? I built Maxim my friend built Vickers.
We both repulsed two blob attacks, both machine guns killed 5 people. Vickers received the 2nd level of vet, Maxim did not receive the 1st level.

The problem is not in Maxim, the problem is in spammers

XP is awarded for damage not kills.

Maxims doens´t need big nerfs. OKW has problem against garisons, thats why maxims are so popular.

As A_C and Smith already stated, all what maxims needs is nerf to his packing time, so he cannot counter multiple flanks at once, decrease in supression when suressed and smaller supression against units in cover.

OKW needs normal counter to buildings. Give them USF mortar and everything will be fine. They´ll get smoke and garison counter early game. Later on they can either use grendes (they already have weapons, so only munny usage is offmaps and mines and nades) or strong tanks

Guys, are you serious here talking about Maxim's nerf? This machine gun - shit (worse only MG-34)
Why is there no talk about who spam three MG-42?
No talk of Vickers? I built Maxim my friend built Vickers.
We both repulsed two blob attacks, both machine guns killed 5 people. Vickers received the 2nd level of vet, Maxim did not receive the 1st level.

The problem is not in Maxim, the problem is in spammers

Plz no more troll posts.

Oh and in case you are serious: Mate we are not talking about rank 1000 4v4 here.. there is one of the biggest CoH2 1v1 tourneys coming up and maxim spam is is a serious problem on most 1v1 maps.

And yes, the actual spam of this unit is the biggest problem but a single maxim itself is overperforming too, with a too fast set-up time, too high surpression (especially if the maxim is surpressed itself) and it is too hard to kill with extremely-cheap-to-reinforce 6 men regarding the skill input you need for some maxim A-moving around the map

Maxims doens´t need big nerfs. OKW has problem against garisons, thats why maxims are so popular.

Yes, there are no doubts that OKW has way harder times dealing with maxim spam, but the problem is STILL that for example a Wehr player needs to invest much effort and use his brain to counter maxim spam.. the maxim spammer on the other side doesnt need to do both of these things

Yes, there are no doubts that OKW has way harder times dealing with maxim spam, but the problem is STILL that for example a Wehr player needs to invest much effort and use his brain to counter maxim spam.. the maxim spammer on the other side doesnt need to do both of these things

Ostmortar and stunnades from tigerace doc are great vs maxims!

Cromwell to 135 fuel

Comet to 200 fuel

All arty cover crits removed and replaced with stuka AT like damage

Regarding Brits, I don't think that applying blanket-nerfs to the entire faction is the way to go. That is, unless you want the Tournament to look ESL-style (i.e., there are only 1-2 viable build-order/commanders per faction).

- Anvil is quite strong, as long as you don't build Churchills
- Hammer is OP
- Hammer + OP doctrines is ridiculously OP



Thus:
1. First, nerf the no-brainer stuff (Cromwell/Comet crush), tank commanders
2. Then, nerf OP Commander units and abilities and bring them on-par with non-DLC commanders
3. Then, nerf Hammer, a lot (Additional Comet nerfs, Emergency warspeed) to bring it on par with Anvil; not higher; nor lower.
4. Then, and only after items 1-3 have been applied, stick additional nerfs to Cromwell as necessary (e.g., teching costs, moving accuracy, price-per unit; in that order)
5. (Be prepared to implement compensating buffs to the faction; e.g., rework Anvil, fix Centaur, fix 25-pounders etc)

In short, Anvil + non-meta commanders, don't need the heavy nerfs that Hammer + meta commanders require. That is, unless you want Brits in the GCS tourney to be like Soviets in ESL (i.e., only 1-2 viable build-orders/commanders per faction).

PS: Emplacement nerfs are orthogonal to these, as I don't suppose you will be seeing that many emplacements in your matches. Simple no-brainer fixes:
- Ban emplacements from base sector
- Brace also reduces incoming healing by 4x (Brace has TOO good synergy with stand-fast & Advanced Emplacement Regiment NPC engineers)

OKW has no real early counter for MG spam.

Leig and Stukas are unreliable. Because, leig rarely kills any model and Stuka is too late and very expensive.

And flame nades should be as a side upgrade from T0, because it takes too much time to tech even for Medic HQ, becasue: it takes time to build a truck and it takes time to place it.

Yes, there are no doubts that OKW has way harder times dealing with maxim spam, but the problem is STILL that for example a Wehr player needs to invest much effort and use his brain to counter maxim spam.. the maxim spammer on the other side doesnt need to do both of these things

But when uses his tools effectively, he will get rewarded with soviet maxim.


I think player A had to invest some strategy to counter rather brainless strategy from player B is rather common and in most of times player who uses his brain will get rewarded and player who just abuse easy no-brain strategy will be punished.


Examples of these are :

Soviet sherman/t34/85 spam
OKW kingtiger
USF rifle blobs
UKF commado/land mattress spam
OST 444 spam

As you can see, spams are very offective strategies if you don´t want to micro nor use your brain, but in reality combined arms and using counters will be always much better.

And if you cannot counter something with tools you have, no matter how good you respond to that strategy, then it´s broken.

Maxims in the open broken aren´t. In mid-late game, they will get eaten alive with StG volks that manage to flank them, because they get 0 recieved acc veterancy bonuses for example.

Regarding Brits, I don't think that applying blanket-nerfs to the entire faction is the way to go. That is, unless you want the Tournament to look ESL-style (i.e., there are only 1-2 viable build-order/commanders per faction).

- Anvil is quite strong, as long as you don't build Churchills
- Hammer is OP
- Hammer + OP doctrines is ridiculously OP



Thus:
1. First, nerf the no-brainer stuff (Cromwell/Comet crush), tank commanders
2. Then, nerf OP Commander units and abilities and bring them on-par with non-DLC commanders
3. Then, nerf Hammer, a lot (Additional Comet nerfs, Emergency warspeed) to bring it on par with Anvil; not higher; nor lower.
4. Then, and only after items 1-3 have been applied, stick additional nerfs to Cromwell as necessary (e.g., teching costs, moving accuracy, price-per unit; in that order)
5. (Be prepared to implement compensating buffs to the faction; e.g., rework Anvil, fix Centaur, fix 25-pounders etc)

In short, Anvil + non-meta commanders, don't need the heavy nerfs that Hammer + meta commanders require. That is, unless you want Brits in the GCS tourney to be like Soviets in ESL (i.e., only 1-2 viable build-orders/commanders per faction).

PS: Emplacement nerfs are orthogonal to these, as I don't suppose you will be seeing that many emplacements in your matches. Simple no-brainer fixes:
- Ban emplacements from base sector
- Brace also reduces incoming healing by 4x (Brace has TOO good synergy with stand-fast & Advanced Emplacement Regiment NPC engineers)

Regarding Brits...

I so wish you were lead designer/balancer/CEO at Relic.

But when uses his tools effectively, he will get rewarded with soviet maxim.


I think player A had to invest some strategy to counter rather brainless strategy from player B is rather common and in most of times player who uses his brain will get rewarded and player who just abuse easy no-brain strategy will be punished.

Hmm and how it comes that top-players sometimes lose to exactly these strats? What you wanna tell them? "Sry mate, you didn't use your skill good enough to counter a no-brainer strat. I hope you understand that." Show Spoiler

If you wanna beat maxim spam, you often need to pray that your enemy is a bit sloppy and loses a maxim due to late retreat so you can steal it. If the enemy never fucks up with that -and it isn't hard to keep maxims alive- it will be very hard to win because of this imo unfair advantage

.... and sometimes it IS close to incounterable, no matter what you do. For example nearly every time, maxim spam + partisans used in a 1v1 tourney was auto-win on Kholodny Ferma

Hmm and how it comes that top-players sometimes lose to exactly these strats? What you wanna tell them? "Sry mate, you didn't use your skill good enough to counter a no-brainer strat. I hope you understand that."

.... and sometimes it IS close to incounterable, no matter what you do. For example nearly every time, maxim spam + partisans used in a 1v1 tourney was auto-win on Kholodny Ferma

Partisans are OP, maxims in current state are OP.

Partisans hardcounter ostheer team weapon play

Maxims in urban map- kholodny win almost every time against OKW.

I never told that current maxims are fine, I´m just telling that as long as no-brainer strategy is counterable, even with higher effort put to counter it than use, then it´s fine, because often countering no-brainer strategy hardcounters enemy army as whole.

I dont understand. What kind of idiot one must be to lose to maxim spqm while you can spqm mgs too having full extra squad and earlier field presence.

What you must do to lose with 3 mg vs 2 maxims.

And 4 men weapon team is against basic design of the faction...

Why? Because squads can only have 6 men?

But they have 4-man partisans, 2-man sniper, 4-man engineer


So it's not like god in heaven said "ONLY 6 MEN SOVIET SQUADS!"

If 4-men solves the issue, it should be done.

Why? Because squads can only have 6 men?

But they have 4-man partisans, 2-man sniper, 4-man engineer


So it's not like god in heaven said "ONLY 6 MEN SOVIET SQUADS!"

If 4-men solves the issue, it should be done.

I am sure either this or increasing reinforcement cost would be enough for a Hotfix

Make Cons more useful in long terms -> less maxim spam.

Make Cons more useful in long terms -> less maxim spam.

As a hardcore maximspammer, I can confirm this is wrong.

Why? Because squads can only have 6 men?

But they have 4-man partisans, 2-man sniper, 4-man engineer


So it's not like god in heaven said "ONLY 6 MEN SOVIET SQUADS!"

If 4-men solves the issue, it should be done.

Becouse apart from a single gimmick (pack howitzer that is a gimmick in multiple ways in terms of design) all factions have a set number of models per every weapon team they use - both bought and recrewed. That is consistent. For example as soviets I know that if I steal MG-42 it will be 6 men, while as ost, I know that if I steal maxim its going to be 4 men. Introducing 4 men maxim would break that entirely.