Pz.Kpfw. VI - Tiger

Commet is better than Tiger, go figure.

I don´t think this is a greatest idea. Player who is taking damage will be advantaged in terms of repair speed to player who is dealing damage.

For example player with tiger will be getting faster repairs while player with su85 won´t be because tiger will be hardly ever damaging tiger and so he will be just advantaged to take damage, because it will be efficient over time.

(I was taking into account that both soviet and ostheer enginners were with sweepers and thus cannot get vet normally. WFA and UKF factions are special snowflakes in terms of repairs ...)

How can you even compare UKF repair times to OKW sturms?

Anvil is useless as is, honestly hector when was the last time you saw any top player like Jove etc use churchills and heavy engineers (grenade bait) in a serious game.

UKF pay out the ass for Anvil and the Anvil engineer upgrade, nerfing it would be the final nail in its coffin.

How can you even compare UKF repair times to OKW sturms?

Anvil is useless as is, honestly hector when was the last time you saw any top player like Jove etc use churchills and heavy engineers (grenade bait) in a serious game.

UKF pay out the ass for Anvil and the Anvil engineer upgrade, nerfing it would be the final nail in its coffin.

Assault engineers repair faster than other enginners, evn normal one. Mainly because of 5th member, faster vet and also you can get them more because they are combat effective. Not like OST/SOV engi with sweeper

What do people think about repairing giving some (small) amount of XP (along with a nerf to WFA+ factions)

They should just let you put the sweeper away with a toggle like on sturmpios.

They do decent enough damage by themselves to get to vet2 with their guns, when they are all firing.

Why not give them some small XP when after finish building, plant and sweeping mines .

It's been 6 months or more since I built one, too little too late, can't compete with multiple comets/jacksons/firefly.

+1

You should be punished for not having tank on the field when you take beating so enemy, who maybe lost many tools forcing your tank to fall back will have room to play without tanks and thus gain ground

Agree completely on bringing WFA/UKF in line with EFA repair speeds.

Insanely fast repairing tanks diminishes the tactical decision making in a game by a lot, and adds unnecessary complications to balance when it's not normalised to some degree across all factions. It also greatly increases the RNG's affect on a game when a lucky tank escape has hardly any penalty.

Also include some way for sweepers to get a comparable repair speed to easily vetted weapon upgraded non sweepers in a reasonable time frame.

Buff EFA and nerf WFA repair speeds so they come closer together.

Damaging the hitpoints of a vehicle must have a feelable effect for the attacker, usualky the retreat of the damaged vehicle and some serious downtime. Any feature which results in hyper quick repaire rates should be reworked.

Buff EFA and nerf WFA repair speeds so they come closer together.

It should be the other way around, nerfing WFA to EFA level of repair speeds. I prefer EFA design considering repairs since you have to use your engineers and pioneers in combat to get them their effective levels of repair speeds with vet. This means more action and combined arms play!

The problem with the Tiger? Well, it's a worse IS-2, and the IS-2 is basically a unicorn at this point. How do you improve something, that is worse than its already bad counterpart?

The IS-2 is more mobile, better armoured, has better penetration, and is better against infantry. The Tiger has faster reload, less scatter, and slightly higher firing range at vet0. The faster reload is the only noteworthy thing here, because the scatter is gigantic on both units anyway, and the higher firing range (a whooping 5 metres!) is particularly useful when you bounce on most things at that range (if you manage to hit in the first place).

Add to that the veterancy bonuses: They are set up in a way, that the IS-2 gets more of everything, because they are percentages. Since the IS-2 starts off with higher values at nearly anything, the bonuses are much better (there's the exception of firing range increase at vet2 for both units, which is a numeric value, but since the IS-2 gets a bonus of 10 compared to the Tiger's 5, even the range superiority the Tiger initially has is lost, taking away one of the minor upsides of the Tiger). For example: At vet3 both vehicles receive a boost to their weapon reload rate of 0,7, which shrinks the Tiger's superiority to about half a second (when it started at about one second). Also at vet3, both vehicles receive a boost to their rotation speed of 1,2. This results in 38,4 for the IS-2, which is higher than the Cromwell's vet0 rotation rate(!), while the Tiger ends up with 28,8 (which is a bit more than the Centaur has at vet0) - for better comparison, the IS-2 gains almost the same rotation rate as the fucking Gokart Tank (the T-70), which is immensely useful for a slow vehicle with a big hitbox, as navigation is significantly improved.

TL;DR: The IS-2 is considered shit, while compared to the Tiger the IS-2 is superior and gets even better with veterancy while the things the Tiger is good at don't get better at the same rate. How that is supposed to give both units a way to perform uniquely yet properly while justifying both vehicles costing the same can only be understood by Relic.

I'd like to see vet 3 armor buff to 340 becasue in times of SU85, Jackson and FF, 300 seems to be not enough.

Tiger isnt bad at all imo, good at good at,and killing infantry even at max range. Not much else you can ask for that being said it does need some support units along with it or it just gets overrun by spammed Allied tanks.

Over on the official forums weve briefly discussed possibly tying heavies to tech (tiger could be t3+bp3, not necessarily a full t4 tech) so they can be more terrifying as a whole, for example the comet is currently a mini tiger, you can get multiple and its immune to team weapons (do to crazy ass WP shells) someone will ALWAYS argue "but full tech AMD sidegrade!" But, say full tech less t4 AND the current cost of a tiger, could have buffed mgs, something like 350 armour, or 50 range stock? This could help seque into more t4 simply because you are halfway there already, so if the match happens to drag...

As for the repair speed thing, im in agreement. Taking damage should be punished, trading poorly should lose you ground.

I am mostly 4v4 Aliied player (but I like to play Wehrmacht as well).

I usually feel relief when I see Tiger. It is easy to deal with one using massed Jacksons/SU-85s. It is much harder to fight against multiple panthers or combination of Panthers/JgPz.IVs/Stugs/any AI tanks.

the tank itself is great, but once damaged, pios take ages to repair it. By comparison a damaged KT can return to combat very quickly. So can the pershing, comet and other tanks.

Soviets and Ost need a repair speed buff. Soviets have other doctrinal repair options also, but ost have nothing but expensive pios (then soviets engies) and lowest repair speed.

Agreed!

yes, vet2: +20% accuracy, +62.5% repair rate
but good luck getting a pio there

i think the tiger needs a small armor buff, it having less armor (200 iirc) than a panther (230) is just ridiculous

other than that repair nerf for wfas

That is ridiculous indeed. I didn't know that.

It should be the other way around, nerfing WFA to EFA level of repair speeds. I prefer EFA design considering repairs since you have to use your engineers and pioneers in combat to get them their effective levels of repair speeds with vet. This means more action and combined arms play!

I think the same.Hate when comets are repaired fast...alsoo doesn't make sense to repair a churchill faster than a pz4

the tank itself is great, but once damaged, pios take ages to repair it. By comparison a damaged KT can return to combat very quickly. So can the pershing, comet and other tanks.

Soviets and Ost need a repair speed buff. Soviets have other doctrinal repair options also, but ost have nothing but expensive pios (then soviets engies) and lowest repair speed.

It is only 1 thing - auto repair, but there is only one doctrine with auto repair and is2 in one. Also, pershing is weaker than tiger thata why its repair a little bitt faster than tiger.

Also, pershing is weaker than tiger thata why its repair a little bitt faster than tiger.

Correct, in terms of game data, the Pershing is treated like a "heavy" medium tank (800 HP) like the Panther, T-34/85 and the Comet. It is supposed to be a better Panther while being a threat to infantry like a heavy tank - a role which it performs well. If you want to use it like a Tiger, you will be disappointed of course, as it can't take as much of a beating.

That said, the Pershing actually works out better as a generalist tank, despite the lower health pool. It is overly mobile, well armoured (same frontal armour as the Tiger, a big WTF-point if you ask me, especially as the Pershing has the mobility to entirely negate the lower rear armour), high penetration (more than the Tiger). On top of that, even the higher reload is negated at vet 3, as the Pershing has a whooping 0.5 modifier to reload speed at that point, which amounts to a faster reload speed than the Tiger at vet3.

This is almost the same as the comparison between Tiger and IS-2: The Pershing starts out a tiny bit worse than the Tiger in very few areas and massively better in others, and gets significantly better with veterancy while the Tiger gets moderately better. The difference is, that the Tiger can take more of a beating, which doesn't change with veterancy - this doesn't negate its downsides, which is why the Pershing actually works in its role.

TL;DR: Compared to its counterparts in other armies, the Tiger is bad. And it gets even worse with veterancy, when its counterparts actually get some decent buffs, while the Tiger gets barely enough to not be considered laughably shitty.

That is ridiculous indeed. I didn't know that.

i actually didnt remember it 100% correctly, real numbers are 320 for panther, 300 for tiger, so my argument still holds true

That said, the Pershing actually works out better as a generalist tank, despite the lower health pool.

additionally, the pershing often can be called in earlier because usf can ignore major and just play with inf, at-gun and stuart, while ost desperatly needs to tech t3