Relic Winter Balance Preview v1.1 Update

There is a new update for the Relic Winter Balance Preview, which mainly effects some of the units which were over nerfed.

As we are getting this smoothed out, there will be some tournaments coming up.

Notes here:

Feedback thread:

Mod workshop location:

Please post replays here: PM me if you have any nice replays you think would make an exciting cast.

Just please bare in mind that since this patch was under official direction of Relic we were very limited and only able go make changes along the specific scopes of Light Tanks/Vehicles, Squad Formations & Clumping, USF Mortar, Penals & Guards, and Wehrmacht Infantry Scaling. So please leave feedback to specifically those changes and not about all the other priority issues that need changing too.

Yes there's so many more issues that need fixing, and this patch will have some consequences of its own, but it's certainly a huge step forward. If this patch goes well as all is smooth, we might be able to do more of these down the line.

I am expecting that the question to spring to everyone's minds is the following:
- Why only limit LMGs on Sappers
- Why not limit Bren LMGs on Tommies as well?

The short answer to that is that it would make Tommies suck way too hard, for their limited utility.

The more precise answer to this is that Brens are closer in performance to the DP-28 (37.5 munitions per DP-28) than the MG-42. What makes matters worse is that Tommies:
- Receive very little in terms of accuracy (Received accuracy is a sub-par stat for long-range units)
- Receive out-of-cover bonuses, which increase Cooldown Reload

To get a comparison between the LMGs, I mentioned, have a look at the following graph:


A more subtle point is that Tommy Bren guns are the most unreliable LMG in the game:
- 8-9 seconds reload time, compared to 3-5 seconds for all other LMGs
- The +40% reload time out-of-cover penalty can make it that Tommies can take up to 12.6 seconds reloading

Thus. To limit Tommy Bren guns to 1:
- We would have to buff Tommy Bren guns
- We would have to give something to Tommies

Although we had some plans about how to accommodate the change, the changes required went out-of-scope. Thus, these will have to be applied in a future patch.

Thanks 'Masters'

Replacing the Penals flamethrower upgrade with PTRS would be great

Grenadiers will still get rekt by double lmg bolstered tommies. Otherwise, good changes.

With the nerf of 222, luch and making ptrs early, undoctrinal i think axis LV answer will be more shitty

Is this talking about the Vickers LMG or Bren gun?

It is somewhat confusing to limit the Bren Gun and not the Vickers LMG.

Zomfg Raketen might be fixed yaaaaaaaaassssssssssss

Wonderful! Absolutely amazing! It's the first patch note where I completely agree with every single change

I would like to thank Mr.Smith for the discussion and using my suggestions on Stug E, the quad and soviet muni float. It's a pleasure to see my ideas improving the game

Is this talking about the Vickers LMG or Bren gun?

It is somewhat confusing to limit the Bren Gun and not the Vickers LMG.

Vickers LMG is equal to Tommy LMG

Sapper Bren LMG is better, and is between Tommy Bren and LMG42.

We have a way to make M3 Resupply drop more interesting, but it doesn't make sense until Tommies get their LMGs limited to 1. Otherwise nobody will pick that doctrine.

Grenadiers will still get rekt by double lmg bolstered tommies. Otherwise, good changes.

With the extra investment, I think that's fair, not to mention this is all Tommies are good for.

Nice changes overall. Just buff mg34 from OKW and give cons a soft upgrade at t4 and patch nailed it.

T-70
We believe that part of the accuracy reduction was a bit too much and are reverting part of the scatter change in order to give the T-70 a bit more consistency. To further improve consistency, we are also giving the T-70 projectile the ability to clip through terrain.
Projectile now ignores terrain elevation
AoE near increased from 0.65 to 0.8

So in the end the T70 got triple buffed. And with 400 HP, it can wipe out grens with ease and reverse back with peace of mind.

we are restoring part of their veterancy so that Penals excel as hard-hitting long-range skirmishers, which will allow them to defend against advancing short-range squads.

Wouldn't that be broken tho. And why would you give "hard-hitting long-range skirmishers" an AT upgrade?

The low cost of the medical-kits had the unintended consequence of providing OKW inexpensive healing that allowed multiple squads to stay the field after engagements.

Tommies' medkits.

With the extra investment, I think that's fair, not to mention this is all Tommies are good for.

Healing and arty flares

nice to see update so soon .

I would prefer to see the command vehicle recon to get a munitions cost, rather than removing it as an option from the UC.

I am worried about Penals change. I agree, that T1 need something against light vechicle, but i don't think think PTRS is right solution.
1. For what i need now guards? Penals do their job.
2.1 Why i need to take Conscripts? Penals deal with infantry and vechicle better. Maybe only 1 squad for merge Penals
2.2 Why i need to take doctrine with PTRS for conscripts?
3. New meta - Shock troops with Penals?

Do you think about M-42 in T1? If you did, why you reject this idea?
P.S. Yes, i have played WBP 1.1.

I can see there is a discussion about tommies. It's an important issue, especially if giving them one bren cap would allow interesting changes to m3 weapon drop.

I think the tommies have enough utility to start to think of them in a way we think about conscript - not too good but necessery utility squad. If we could get 80hp healing (by making it longer, not faster) and a buff to brit underwhelming base arty (possibly with cost increase) in exchange for 2nd bren, I would be all for it.

It's not going to nerf them too much, they are still potent early game squad and going double bren ends up with drop fest on vet3 either way.

Another idea would be to give them 3rd upgrade, that would increase their firepower, in most straightforward case the bren, but possibly something else. That way they would have to specialise, either in best firepower or healing or arty supprt. This came to my mind when I realised the first suggestion may couse brits at tier 1 to not have a squad worth building to be kept through whole game other than mg, when the needed amount of IS is already on the field thus limiting their early game build options.

Healing and arty flares

Well to be fair, arguing that at the moment is like saying Wehr vet 1 was a fine and helpful addition even in bulk

I otherwise have no helpful opinion on the matter.

"Universal Carrier

The command vehicle ability allow vehicles to have access to cost-free recon. We found this to be an extremely cost-efficient benefit to inexpensive light vehicles such as the UC.

Command vehicle ability removed from UC."

In this case reduce the penalties to vehicle especially the speed one and the received accuracy one

Penalties to commanding vehicle:
-50% speed, +100% reload, +100% cool-down, -50% accuracy, +100% received accuracy.

Suggestion:
speed down to 4 for all vehicles regardless of type, received accuracy +50%?
That would give an extra use for Churchill since it will suffer the least...