Winter Balance Preview Changelog

And all light flamethrower vehicles also counter AT guns if u can flanking them.

seriously.....

Seriously, you can trick and make sniper immediate recloak after fire.
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57731/psa-sniper-stealth-in-the-balance-preview-patch

Hi im Kolter, first time i ever make a comment here but i am a fan of Coh 2 and have over 1800 h in. and sorry to say but this will be rader long thread.

my main faction is usf and i have been hardcore playing them since release up untill this autum when i started to shift to soviet, wher, obkw and ukf.

the thing about this patch that concerns me a bit to much is the fact that stuart gets such a major nerf,

Stuart
240 mp- 70 fuel to 270-70 fuel. ok but - 25 % inf dmg. thats alot, this unit is for anti inf, and i can say by experience that this unit comes out about 5-6 min if usf had a good start otherwise close to 7-9

during this time usf will encounter panzergren with shreks, at or mines and pumas, this is a hard time for the stuart witch isnt that effective against neither veichels or inf tbh, it does it work but i wouldnt say its on pair with lutch or t-70. generally its not a unit that needed a nerf. basically if u had a bad start with whermacht then you must expect the stuart to come, 5 min prep time for it.

the other reason why this is such a huge blow to usf is that stuart is the only unit usf can rely on to hold the line untill shermans comes out, thats because Ostwind will come out faster then shermans, same with stug E and command tank, sure stug e gets nerfed but during my experience alot of battles has been shifted to the axis favor cuse of stug E and the lack armor i had against it.

third is that this patch is forceing usf to go LT tier instead of captain, i rly dont like this option cuze the usf LV are weak and didnt eflict enough dmg on enemy veichels or units. the overprice was also afact but they get 2 shoted by at, 2 222 or 1 luch could easily take them both out so lt tier is not rewarding at all, and now - 50% main gun wep dmg on inf, its not good at all. thats why atleast i have to go captain, the lack of mines does not help either tbh.

on close combat maps such as semosky or the new maps, you can expect enemy tank mines. witch 1 shot lv, and you can expect them for sure.

the gamechanger was the mortar for usf, this unit made usf able to get the stuart at 5-6 min. i haveto say, rather nerf the fire rate on the usf mortar then nerf the stuart. or atleast consider to only drop the fire rate on the stuart by 10%.

last if not least, ppl who push usf in 5-6 min when the stuart comes out, can expect to get punished if they dont lay any mines or have a at to back their inf upp. i always have a at behind my units to cut of the effectivness against stuart.

Hi im Kolter, first time i ever make a comment here but i am a fan of Coh 2 and have over 1800 h in. and sorry to say but this will be rader long thread.

my main faction is usf and i have been hardcore playing them since release up untill this autum when i started to shift to soviet, wher, obkw and ukf.

the thing about this patch that concerns me a bit to much is the fact that stuart gets such a major nerf,

Stuart
240 mp- 70 fuel to 270-70 fuel. ok but - 25 % inf dmg. thats alot, this unit is for anti inf, and i can say by experience that this unit comes out about 5-6 min if usf had a good start otherwise close to 7-9

during this time usf will encounter panzergren with shreks, at or mines and pumas, this is a hard time for the stuart witch isnt that effective against neither veichels or inf tbh, it does it work but i wouldnt say its on pair with lutch or t-70. generally its not a unit that needed a nerf. basically if u had a bad start with whermacht then you must expect the stuart to come, 5 min prep time for it.

the other reason why this is such a huge blow to usf is that stuart is the only unit usf can rely on to hold the line untill shermans comes out, thats because Ostwind will come out faster then shermans, same with stug E and command tank, sure stug e gets nerfed but during my experience alot of battles has been shifted to the axis favor cuse of stug E and the lack armor i had against it.

third is that this patch is forceing usf to go LT tier instead of captain, i rly dont like this option cuze the usf LV are weak and didnt eflict enough dmg on enemy veichels or units. the overprice was also afact but they get 2 shoted by at, 2 222 or 1 luch could easily take them both out so lt tier is not rewarding at all, and now - 50% main gun wep dmg on inf, its not good at all. thats why atleast i have to go captain, the lack of mines does not help either tbh.

on close combat maps such as semosky or the new maps, you can expect enemy tank mines. witch 1 shot lv, and you can expect them for sure.

the gamechanger was the mortar for usf, this unit made usf able to get the stuart at 5-6 min. i haveto say, rather nerf the fire rate on the usf mortar then nerf the stuart. or atleast consider to only drop the fire rate on the stuart by 10%.

last if not least, ppl who push usf in 5-6 min when the stuart comes out, can expect to get punished if they dont lay any mines or have a at to back their inf upp. i always have a at behind my units to cut of the effectivness against stuart.

Stuart needs higher cost badly because USF has a huge teching advantage compared with all other factions.
The Stuart was a guaranteed kill on any light vehicle (222, 251, Luchs) or it's natural counter, the puma. You just need to hit 1 button: the 45 mun stun. And that was BULLSHIT. Not sure if damage nerf vs inf for main gun(for coaxial mg definetely) was needed, I guess it was to avoid pudding like Püppchen crew one-shot or full squad kill with 2 shots.

And pls no more BabyRage posts how bad LT tier is, PLEASE. You still wreck axis light tanks with early zook on RE or riflemen. This + .50 cal hmg or AA HT is super strong

Command Panther prioritize vehicle doesnt work.

Well the Stuart meta was a direct result of OKW losing schrecks on Volks. It was further solidified by USF getting a mortar (that in the patch at least has less range.) that shut down MGs, which made it impossible to protect PAKs. (If the mortar didn't wipe the PAK crew outright.)

There's a crap ton of changes that are reacting to symptoms here.

Command Panther prioritize vehicle doesnt work.

Noted. Thanks!

Light Tanks/Vehicles

I think these have been extremely powerful for only the Allied factions due to recent changes to Allied factions. Light vehicles dominatation was entirely symptomatic to OKW losing panzerschrecks and Ostheers MG being roflcountered by the USF mortar. (Which made it impossible to defend PAK positions, eliminating all vehicle counterplay outside of 222s... And so you start to see the pattern.)

Nerfing the light vehicles is just addressing the water damage without fixing the leak.

Squad Formations & Clumping

Functionally unaddressed. The formations that the squads are trying to get to may be better, but the issue is with general pathing and how infantry interact with objects and calculate routes around them. What's causing units to clump and forgo sensible squad basing has nothing to do with their formation in open cover.

Units phasing into each other don't spread out into formation when they are told to stop or given an order to attack. I guess what I'm saying is that squad formation is about destination, rather than what kind of spacing they'll take while moving.

USF Mortar

Less range is one way of handling things I guess. Thing is just as lethal and now is a bit more mobile. If the mortar has trouble invalidating MGs so rifles can't freeroam onto any and all PAK positions then I'd consider it fixed.

Penals & Guards

Removing flamethrowers is not a bad move, but it kinda leaves a void. I like that it opens up conscript molotovs more for anti-garrisons, but I feel that Penals need some kind of upgrade to put them into either into a long range (DP-28) role or short range (PPsh) role. Of all the changes this seemed the most appropriate, if not the most negligible.

The changes to Guards make no sense to me. Personally the only issue with Guards was that they couldn't get the PTRS back. IMO they should've always arrived without PTRS and had a 50 or 60 muni upgrade to get (and replace) them if need be.

Wehrmacht Infantry Scaling

... Accomplished by making medkits heal for longer? I really don't understand how anyone thinks this was even addressed, let alone fixed. The issue with Wehrmacht infantry is that fully healed squads drop models too quickly. Focusing fire onto four man squads is resoundingly more effective than focus firing onto 5 and 6 man squads. Either the units need to balanced to take this into account, or we can continue this charade of balancing squads around the entities within them.

Grenadiers tend to have to deal twice the amount of damage before an enemy squad has to think about retreating. Med packs to heal the 1 or 2 remaining entities after a battle won't change that at all.

Alternately I still have yet to hear a convincing argument for a T4 Bolster Squad upgrade for Grenadiers only. Having grens just be 5 man 280mp squads out the door is certainly imbalanced, but the best I've heard against it is that a T4 bolster squad would just be another investment ostheer couldn't afford.

I need some clarification on a couple of things.

1) I am fine with the nerf to wind up for guard grenades, however I think all grenades should then have that wind up since it is the longest in the game. The MK2 has the single highest wind-up of any grenade in the game. Why would one want to put an additional micro tax on all allied factions by giving less time to react to axis nades and having to wait longer for own nades to be thrown?

2) Ass grens are now really quick to throw their nades and other than a retreat seems really difficult to evade the nades.

3) "We wanted to make the M20 more accessible but also make its interaction with the 222 more consistent while lower its close range damage to limit its effectiveness at diving after support weapons and infantry on retreat. We also felt that the M20 vets up too slowly and without enough bonuses."
I don't quite see where the changes relate to the text. None of the changes provide any bonuses to vet other than bringing accuracy close to the level it was before the change, right? The interaction with the 222 also seems unaffected to me.

Other than these things that I don't quite understand/agree with, I like the patch a lot. I'll need a lot more games though.

A really big thank you to you guys for putting in so much of your time to make this game better. Thank you very much

No more clown car Penal cheese! Awwwww Yeahhhh!!! MG42 finally back to being OP!

June 21 2016 patch stated that OKW would get a 60% medic healrate buff, sadly Relic forgot to actually change it and its still at 5.



This patch would be the perfect opportunity to fix it

June 21 2016 patch stated that OKW would get a 60% medic healrate buff, sadly Relic forgot to actually change it and its still at 5.



This patch would be the perfect opportunity to fix it

As much as I despise OKW, I think this fix needs to be in the patch, or we will never see the Medical HQ in 1vs1 ever again.

Unfortunately, changes to OKW infantry were out of scope for this patch.

Since the focus of the infantry changes was to balance Penals/Guards around Wehrmacht infantry scaling, we expect OKW infantry will overperform against Soviets who now don't have as (overpowered) scaling infantry. OKW and Wehrmacht infantry scale to completely different levels of potency, so we couldn't do much to make them both without being able to touch OKW. Hopefully if we're able to another patch, we can tone down British and OKW late game too, to really equalise infantry scaling between all fact. I suspect we'll see more Soviet Snipers or Maxims against OKW as a result.

In the 15 or so Soviet games I played internally to test, I found Penals and Guards were still scaling very well versus Wehrmacht infantry. Penals have really good vet bonuses, especially with "To the last Man" Conscripts, however are a different story.

Isn't sticking your head in the sand regarding one faction a completely backwards approach to balancing in general? Shouldn't you be trying to find a balance point somewhere in the middle when it comes to Soviet infantry facing both OKW and Wehrmacht? I don't see how you can just pretend like one faction doesn't exist. Try to find balances that work against both factions, and then compromise and put it somewhere in the middle. Otherwise you're just going to get what you mentioned, complete OP infantry from OKW vs the Soviets.

Isn't sticking your head in the sand regarding one faction a completely backwards approach to balancing in general? Shouldn't you be trying to find a balance point somewhere in the middle when it comes to Soviet infantry facing both OKW and Wehrmacht? I don't see how you can just pretend like one faction doesn't exist. Try to find balances that work against both factions, and then compromise and put it somewhere in the middle. Otherwise you're just going to get what you mentioned, complete OP infantry from OKW vs the Soviets.

okw infantry balance could not fit in the scope for this balance patch for whatever reason. hope we dont have to wait 3 months for next next patch.

edit: it is a valid point though. from what i read from "developers" of this patch, i feel that you guys thought of this as part 1 of 2 due to limited scope.

While we're at light vehicles, why does the M3A1 cost 15 fuel? It has a little better dps than kubel or bren and will win against kubel 1v1 but 15 fuel is a little too much for me. If I was in charge I would nerf it and remove fuel cost. Will this be addressed in any way?

While we're at light vehicles, why does the M3A1 cost 15 fuel? It has a little better dps than kubel or bren and will win against kubel 1v1 but 15 fuel is a little too much for me. If I was in charge I would nerf it and remove fuel cost. Will this be addressed in any way?

+1 on this.
I would rather see that Carrier for the UKF cost 15 fuel then the M3A1.

While we're at light vehicles, why does the M3A1 cost 15 fuel? It has a little better dps than kubel or bren and will win against kubel 1v1 but 15 fuel is a little too much for me. If I was in charge I would nerf it and remove fuel cost. Will this be addressed in any way?

Still cheaper than the dodge Also there is really no good way to nerf it. Its main potential is the fact that it can garrison units, that can shoot from inside of it. Without this ability it would be useless, with it, the unit is so powerful and gamechanging it is worth its fuel cost.

Nerfing the mobility is not a good idea as it would make it the copy paste of dodge.

Isn't sticking your head in the sand regarding one faction a completely backwards approach to balancing in general? Shouldn't you be trying to find a balance point somewhere in the middle when it comes to Soviet infantry facing both OKW and Wehrmacht? I don't see how you can just pretend like one faction doesn't exist. Try to find balances that work against both factions, and then compromise and put it somewhere in the middle. Otherwise you're just going to get what you mentioned, complete OP infantry from OKW vs the Soviets.

+1.

seem that this is the relic way to do things, we gonna most wait 2-3 months to be able to play soviets again.

okw infantry balance could not fit in the scope for this balance patch for whatever reason. hope we dont have to wait 3 months for next next patch.

edit: it is a valid point though. from what i read from "developers" of this patch, i feel that you guys thought of this as part 1 of 2 due to limited scope.

Right, 2-3 months of potentially broken balance and worse yet, what if the second patch never comes? I don't understand limiting the scope to certain factions. If you have to take more time on the patch to look at all the factions, I'm sure the game would be better off for it.