A Simple Question about Panzerschreck

I know this topic has been around for ages now but it's a simple question i haven't found an answer for.

Why give Panzerschreck to a unit that's not fully combat oriented? They are squishy, always busy and have a very bad range that they can barely make a one successful hit from Panzerschrecks, isn't Panzerschreck supposed to counter Allies Tanks and all kind of vehicles with ease Like Volks before the balance and Panzergrenadiers? I Think it should be handled to another elite unit that can easily fight against tanks and fully combat ready! or at least fix the the range problem! What do you think?

Depends if u consider Panzerschreck as defensive weapon (as it was irl) or offensive - as it is with PGs and Volks (actually should be same with zooks)

Because people argued inanely for months on the forums without playing the game.

For that reason things like the status of panzerschrecks being t0 was of such an issue that the impact of moving them onto sturms wasn't realized in terms of gameplay.

On paper the idea of giving sturms schrecks and giving volks an stg upgrade made sense in the context of the metagame of the time but for the faction as a whole.

The goal of moving panzerschrecks onto sturms was to make volks blobs ineffective and it accomplished that in spades. Unfortunately that's all it did.

Ultimately there's still the option of Obersoldaten, but they do indeed come late (but they could prove to be more viable than the rarely used sturm schreck). There's also the notion of some sort of tank buster squad but the track record shows that that reeks of ending up on a commander (Although in that vein I wonder if jaeger or panzerfusiliers could be given a schreck option without being broken.) I dunno. Moving panzerschrecks of volksgrenadiers probably necessitated a redesign of the whole faction, especially since it was functionally the core of OKW gameplay at that point.

The goal of moving panzerschrecks onto sturms was to make volks blobs ineffective and it accomplished that in spades.

This is correct, the rest is pretty heavily opinionated.

Volks were supposed to be downgraded when upgraded with shreks, that is they were supposed to suffer vs. infantry. However, when they were at close ranges the shrek reliably killed infantry models, making it an upgrade in some ways. The shrek was also extremely potent, initially locked behind a T2 unit that required huge opportunity and munitions costs to unlock. Moved onto a cheap spammable unit it created blobs that could effectively take on most threats and intimidated armor in a way that was unfair.

However, when removing shreks from volks it became obvious that OKW was short of reliable early AT. This job could only be adopted by Sturms in the current game because no other tier structure has an infantry unit that arrives at the time of light vehicle play. This is problematic as Sturms are already highly burdened with combat and engineer duties, adding AT only makes it obvious how much they do elsewhere.

As it stands, removal of shreks from volks was useful in reducing blobs of overly lethal spammable infantry for OKW. It was not part of the core design and was poorly implemented within the rest of the faction, suggesting that a more complete treatment of the issue is still needed. However, the game is not broken by the change and so we push on.


I don't know what you mean by range problems.

isn't Panzerschreck supposed to counter Allies Tanks and all kind of vehicles with ease Like Volks before the balance and Panzergrenadiers? I Think it should be handled to another elite unit that can easily fight against tanks

That's exactly what it should not be doing. AT guns, Tank destroyers etc have that role.

sturms repair tanks at increased speed and can defend the tank against allied tanks that dive in thinking they can finish it off. if you want to use the shrek as frontline anti tank, dont, its not meant for that anymore because OKW has an aggressive early to midgame plus faust on their core troop and the raktenwerfer which is micro intensive but the best AT gun for supporting infantry pushes.

This is correct, the rest is pretty heavily opinionated.

Volks were supposed to be downgraded when upgraded with shreks, that is they were supposed to suffer vs. infantry. However, when they were at close ranges the shrek reliably killed infantry models, making it an upgrade in some ways. The shrek was also extremely potent, initially locked behind a T2 unit that required huge opportunity and munitions costs to unlock. Moved onto a cheap spammable unit it created blobs that could effectively take on most threats and intimidated armor in a way that was unfair.

However, when removing shreks from volks it became obvious that OKW was short of reliable early AT. This job could only be adopted by Sturms in the current game because no other tier structure has an infantry unit that arrives at the time of light vehicle play. This is problematic as Sturms are already highly burdened with combat and engineer duties, adding AT only makes it obvious how much they do elsewhere.

As it stands, removal of shreks from volks was useful in reducing blobs of overly lethal spammable infantry for OKW. It was not part of the core design and was poorly implemented within the rest of the faction, suggesting that a more complete treatment of the issue is still needed. However, the game is not broken by the change and so we push on.


I don't know what you mean by range problems.

the other large problem with having shrecks on volks is that it allowed them to gain vet VERY quickly, making them much more resilient and better at fighting infantry (since their vet bonuses are geared towards their role as a low-cost mainline infantry unit). this, combined with 5 man squads, made them very hard to counter, especially in blobs. allied armor can't reliably deal with 4 squads of vetted volks with shrecks; neither can allied infantry kill them fast enough to get wipes.

hence the rocket arty meta.

because allied lobby...

I actually really like the feel of shreks on sturms. Volks being fodder while the skilled veterans are overworked and in short supply is good with the lore of the okw as well as removing ye olde obervolkdaten capable of countering literally anything they got into range of.. It forces diversity (not just 11 volks squads..) and gives sturms a nice bump in vet gain. But due to Sturm squad size and cost coupled with lower alpha strike (vs pgrens) it is a defensive armament. This is good, AT should rely on planning, use of mines and such. Now if they can somehow address rifle terminators balance will be closer yet

I actually really like the feel of shreks on sturms. Volks being fodder while the skilled veterans are overworked and in short supply is good with the lore of the okw as well as removing ye olde obervolkdaten capable of countering literally anything they got into range of.. It forces diversity (not just 11 volks squads..) and gives sturms a nice bump in vet gain. But due to Sturm squad size and cost coupled with lower alpha strike (vs pgrens) it is a defensive armament. This is good, AT should rely on planning, use of mines and such. Now if they can somehow address rifle terminators balance will be closer yet

Sadly, in practice, no one build additional Spios to get more schrecks. You maybe, just MAYBE upgrade the one you start with. Your army wont be more divers, when you running with the only spio you start with.. just like before. 90MU schrecks are overpriced, and spios are not the right unit for this weapon imo.

Also schrecks were never meant to be defensive... it doesnt make much sense imo...

cause the allies are cry babys which stomp their foots enough time on the floor....

so we have now allies bloobs with zooks and piats and guards....of cause with brens/lmgs/bars

this infantery bloobs are more powerfull than volks blobbs was...

realize this relic? no...they ignore this game now and let it be in this status.

However, when they were at close ranges the shrek reliably killed infantry models, making it an upgrade in some ways.

Wat? It was the vet that made volks good, not the schreck upgrade. Now that rifles have the op vet you suddenly dont hear complaints anymore. At this point allied fanboys arent even trying anymore...

That's exactly what it should not be doing. AT guns, Tank destroyers etc have that role.

really? r u new?

really? r u new?

Why? Because I don't want to see a return to shrek blobs? Anything which promotes combined arms is good for the game in my opinion.

Handheld AT in coh2 is soft AT, which means it is generally ment to scare off enemy tanks or support hard AT in killing them, not kill them by itself with one long range salvo. That is the job of pak walls.

The only handheld AT unit in game that was aimed as hard AT is the pgren squad with upgrade. This is good and acceptable becouse not only they cost an arm and a leg but also this is their one and only role as they are useless against infantry (after upgun) and have no support duties.

Handheld AT in coh2 is soft AT, which means it is generally ment to scare off enemy tanks or support hard AT in killing them, not kill them by itself with one long range salvo. That is the job of pak walls.

The only handheld AT unit in game that was aimed as hard AT is the pgren squad with upgrade. This is good and acceptable becouse not only they cost an arm and a leg but also this is their one and only role as they are useless against infantry (after upgun) and have no support duties.

+1