What's left to fix to have a fairly balanced game?

I would still like to see grenade response timings fixed. Ordering a unit to throw a grenade often comes with a delay, the action should be instant. The same is true of issuing orders to mortars which often sit for quite some time after an order is given. Units should feel responsive, not like they are stuck in the mud.

JP cloaking still needs to be addressed.

A number of commander abilities need to be reworked to make them even available in the meta.

The number one issue, imo, is veterancy abilities, XP value and veterancy bonuses...

Changes there could greatly increase diversity and help with balance allot...

If for instance unit A and B both get a useful ability people will built both units units than spam just unit A...

Making Brits in general less buggy. Off the top of my head:

Tommy Vet 3
Sniper targeting buildings rather then the people in them
AEC stun (and balancing the stun, 20 seconds if it does work is nuts)
Mortar pit second mortar is weaker on barrage mode
Commando Cloak bonuses staying on until the squad member dies
Crom/Comet smoke shell never firing
M3's vet doesn't work properly
Valentine will sometimes track people who've long since exited the beam
Etc, etc

Off the top of my head, I can also think the following:

- Sappers being unable to upgrade both Sweepers and Heavy Engineers at vet3 at the same time (however, they can do both at vet0, vet1, vet2)
- Churchills/Comets can throw grenades on the move, if you know how to
- Otherwise, it's impossible to cancel grenade throw on these tanks, making them sitting ducks for 3 seconds
- Commando smoke grenade actually prevents them from using stealth
- Commando ambush sprint will sometimes prevent them from using their weapons, even after stopping
- Commando ambush will, sometimes, even trigger mid-combat
- UC Vickers_k gun is uncontrollable, even though it's the only gun that suppresses
- UKF can't call in new sappers if their T2 is destroyed (they can only make new sappers out of T2)
- Firefly Tulips will also stun infantry (if they don't wipe it outright)
- Vickers suppression is way too low vs yellow cover
- Anvil Airburst shells have no travel time; i.e., they can land instantly the moment the flare is fired
- Anvil advanced warning (territory point LOS) doesn't work
- Hammer vehicle sight will fail to refresh the sight duration if the vehicle was "visible" when hit
- Churchill Crocodile turret gun is uncontrollable. Even though the gun is actually decent vs infantry, It seems to prefer attacking vehicles, which it can't hurt (due to its pathetic 80 damage).
- Churchill Crocodile has a 2nd, hidden, flamethrower weapon which is uncontrollable, and has been untouched by nerfs (high rate-of-fire, long range).
- Tommies/Sappers/Commandos get 3 different types of Bren guns; but only if they pick them up from the racks. Picking a Bren up from the ground only gives access to the Tommy version
- Hold the line is both bugged, and extremely OP if it ever manages to trigger
- Artillery Regiment perimeter overwatch has no chance of ever working (guns need to reface to attack). Better disable the ability to prevent accidental loss of MU due to a missclick.
- Bofors will continue to barrage, even if the garrisoning squad exit moments from the ability triggering
- Command Vehicle ability will become permanently unavailable if the previous command vehicle gets abandoned (as opposed to getting destroyed)
- Tactical support air supply will, very often, drop the AT gun at an inaccessible location, when used inside the base sector
- The whole, Vanguard glider shenanigans (can't call in new officer until glider is destroyed. Can't call in new glider if previous crash-landed, etc)
- Glider entities occupy a massive portion of the screen once destroyed, making selecting units inside that area impossible
- Brit medics (like USF medics) will, sometimes, stop auto-healing nearby injured troops, making them a pain to micro.
- Airlanding officer charge is so damn OP that its stats have to be a bug. Right?

Obviously, many of these abilities will have to be toned down to make them balanced, once they are fixed. However, bugs are annoying, and they drive people away.

Off the top of my head, I can also think the following:

- Sappers being unable to upgrade both Sweepers and Heavy Engineers at vet3 at the same time (however, they can do both at vet0, vet1, vet2)
- Churchills/Comets can throw grenades on the move, if you know how to
- Otherwise, it's impossible to cancel grenade throw on these tanks, making them sitting ducks for 3 seconds
- Commando smoke grenade actually prevents them from using stealth
- Commando ambush sprint will sometimes prevent them from using their weapons, even after stopping
- Commando ambush will, sometimes, even trigger mid-combat
- UC Vickers_k gun is uncontrollable, even though it's the only gun that suppresses
- UKF can't call in new sappers if their T2 is destroyed (they can only make new sappers out of T2)
- Firefly Tulips will also stun infantry (if they don't wipe it outright)
- Vickers suppression is way too low vs yellow cover
- Anvil Airburst shells have no travel time; i.e., they can land instantly the moment the flare is fired
- Anvil advanced warning (territory point LOS) doesn't work
- Hammer vehicle sight will fail to refresh the sight duration if the vehicle was "visible" when hit
- Churchill Crocodile turret gun is uncontrollable. Even though the gun is actually decent vs infantry, It seems to prefer attacking vehicles, which it can't hurt (due to its pathetic 80 damage).
- Churchill Crocodile has a 2nd, hidden, flamethrower weapon which is uncontrollable, and has been untouched by nerfs (high rate-of-fire, long range).
- Tommies/Sappers/Commandos get 3 different types of Bren guns; but only if they pick them up from the racks. Picking a Bren up from the ground only gives access to the Tommy version
- Hold the line is both bugged, and extremely OP if it ever manages to trigger
- Artillery Regiment perimeter overwatch has no chance of ever working (guns need to reface to attack). Better disable the ability to prevent accidental loss of MU due to a missclick.
- Bofors will continue to barrage, even if the garrisoning squad exit moments from the ability triggering
- Command Vehicle ability will become permanently unavailable if the previous command vehicle gets abandoned (as opposed to getting destroyed)
- Tactical support air supply will, very often, drop the AT gun at an inaccessible location, when used inside the base sector
- The whole, Vanguard glider shenanigans (can't call in new officer until glider is destroyed. Can't call in new glider if previous crash-landed, etc)
- Glider entities occupy a massive portion of the screen once destroyed, making selecting units inside that area impossible
- Brit medics (like USF medics) will, sometimes, stop auto-healing nearby injured troops, making them a pain to micro.
- Airlanding officer charge is so damn OP that its stats have to be a bug. Right?

Obviously, many of these abilities will have to be toned down to make them balanced, once they are fixed. However, bugs are annoying, and they drive people away.

but aren't those feature?:romeoHype

Off the top of my head, I can also think the following:

- Sappers being unable to upgrade both Sweepers and Heavy Engineers at vet3 at the same time (however, they can do both at vet0, vet1, vet2)
- Churchills/Comets can throw grenades on the move, if you know how to
- Otherwise, it's impossible to cancel grenade throw on these tanks, making them sitting ducks for 3 seconds
- Commando smoke grenade actually prevents them from using stealth
- Commando ambush sprint will sometimes prevent them from using their weapons, even after stopping
- Commando ambush will, sometimes, even trigger mid-combat
- UC Vickers_k gun is uncontrollable, even though it's the only gun that suppresses
- UKF can't call in new sappers if their T2 is destroyed (they can only make new sappers out of T2)
- Firefly Tulips will also stun infantry (if they don't wipe it outright)
- Vickers suppression is way too low vs yellow cover
- Anvil Airburst shells have no travel time; i.e., they can land instantly the moment the flare is fired
- Anvil advanced warning (territory point LOS) doesn't work
- Hammer vehicle sight will fail to refresh the sight duration if the vehicle was "visible" when hit
- Churchill Crocodile turret gun is uncontrollable. Even though the gun is actually decent vs infantry, It seems to prefer attacking vehicles, which it can't hurt (due to its pathetic 80 damage).
- Churchill Crocodile has a 2nd, hidden, flamethrower weapon which is uncontrollable, and has been untouched by nerfs (high rate-of-fire, long range).
- Tommies/Sappers/Commandos get 3 different types of Bren guns; but only if they pick them up from the racks. Picking a Bren up from the ground only gives access to the Tommy version
- Hold the line is both bugged, and extremely OP if it ever manages to trigger
- Artillery Regiment perimeter overwatch has no chance of ever working (guns need to reface to attack). Better disable the ability to prevent accidental loss of MU due to a missclick.
- Bofors will continue to barrage, even if the garrisoning squad exit moments from the ability triggering
- Command Vehicle ability will become permanently unavailable if the previous command vehicle gets abandoned (as opposed to getting destroyed)
- Tactical support air supply will, very often, drop the AT gun at an inaccessible location, when used inside the base sector
- The whole, Vanguard glider shenanigans (can't call in new officer until glider is destroyed. Can't call in new glider if previous crash-landed, etc)
- Glider entities occupy a massive portion of the screen once destroyed, making selecting units inside that area impossible
- Brit medics (like USF medics) will, sometimes, stop auto-healing nearby injured troops, making them a pain to micro.
- Airlanding officer charge is so damn OP that its stats have to be a bug. Right?

Obviously, many of these abilities will have to be toned down to make them balanced, once they are fixed. However, bugs are annoying, and they drive people away.

Jesus christ the amount of bugs in this game never ceases to amaze, especially since this is only like 1/4 of the actual total. Hopefully some of these are fixed but i'm probably being too optimistic.

Apologies. My memory is so bad nowadays.

I can't believe I actually forgot the following:
- The UC actually receives no bonuses at Vet1, unlike what the veterancy text wants to make you believe
- Due to the way it has been parametrised, the Vickers_K on the UC will deal inconsistent DPS depending on range. e.g., you might get lower DPS at range 29 than both range 28 and range 30
- UC Vickers_K seems to be inflicting a very tiny portion of its damage as AoE with radius 2.
- Tactical Support Salvage engineers continue to benefit from improved cooldown/reload cover bonus at Vet1, despite of the equiped weapon (should be restricted to their Stens)
- Tactical support savlage doesn't work on AEC. I also heard something funky happens when you use it vs Ambulances
- (I haven't verified this) Vickers_K guns seem to never drop, making them the ideal choice for vet3 Tommies
- Artillery Commander concentration barrage is usable in the base sector (that + pinpoint, instant airburst shells = gg)
- Smoke raid seems to affect units inside vehicles (e.g., UC, gliders). When these units exit the vehicle, they don't show as transparent to the controlling player
- Sapper Barbed Wires are not crushable by light vehicles (e.g., 222, Luchs)
- The AEC can actually crush walls if you drive it next to them, even if pathfinding doesn't make it look like this
- Tommies still have their old 35MP-per-model reinforcement cost when used to recrew team weapons (also applies to all other elite squads with that -20% discount to reinforcement: PGs, SPs, etc)
- Commandos cost 2-popcap-per model when used to recrew team-weapons
- The airlanding officer model has no received accuracy bonuses at Vet0, unlike its commando comrades (-29% received accuracy). It also costs more to reinforce (37 MP), and that can mess up the reinforcement cost for the rest of the squad (admittedly not as bad as Lieutentant/Captain squads, though)
- PIATs are not able to damage decrewed team weapons, even if you fire them standing next to the team weapons.
- Tulips will not only travel through buildings; they will also travel through terrain, making it highly likely that a rocket travels underneath the target when used against an elevation.
- When it comes to abandoned team weapons, Tulips behave exactly like the T-34 ram; a Tulip will instagib any abandoned team-weapon it travels through (including Pak43, etc, etc)
- Sappers can sometimes fail to setup their destroy cover ability, when the ability is used very close to the obstruction.
- When a commando glider lands, the spawning commandos are instantly given a command to advance a few meters forward. This movement command can only be cancelled by a movement command, but not by a stop command.
- Gliders can actually collide mid-air, which results in both crews (and the glider) being insta-gibbed.
- Commandos ambush is bugged in so many different ways, I have to write a paragraph to explain it.
- Comets actually don't have heavy crush, unlike Panthers

No, people, I meant collecting the stuff that is blatantly wrong, not fine tunes like a lot of what's posted seems to be.

...
- Commandos ambush is bugged in so many different ways, I have to write a paragraph to explain it.

I am under the impression, that commandos where meant to be able to use melee weapons ("knifes") to kill enemy units and that why their ambush bonuses is "designed" as is.

It should probably be redesigned completely. Imo it should work similar to FJ camo (storm trooper camo also).

Having sort fuse grenades that squad wipe easily with little counter play is not helpful.

Thanks for going through these Smith, good catches. Are you gonna do a write up of all factions because I would be interested to see what else has been forgotten.

Yeah thanks smith, good stuff

Mr. Smith, please stop this rape. Have a mercy for Lelic

Other factions bugs aren't as funny as the Brits, because:
- Brits are full of Brit abilities; this means that they are as fancy, as they are likely to break
- Brits are the newest faction, which meant relic had had very little time to fix their abilities

Anyway, here it goes.

Off the top of my head, from funniest to dullest:

General bugs
Show Spoiler

OKW:
Show Spoiler

OST
Show Spoiler

Soviets
Show Spoiler


USF
Show Spoiler

Other factions bugs aren't as funny as the Brits, because:
- Brits are full of Brit abilities; this means that they are as fancy, as they are likely to break
- Brits are the newest faction, which meant relic had had very little time to fix their abilities

Anyway, here it goes.

Off the top of my head, from funniest to dullest:

General bugs
Show Spoiler

OKW:
Show Spoiler

OST
Show Spoiler

Soviets
Show Spoiler

USF
Show Spoiler

Adressing USF pointers based on my experience.

-Lock Mortar behind 1st Officer unlock, like how the OKW MG34 is locked behind your first truck deployment.
- All cooked grenades suffer from this buff, if the model doing the animation dies you lose the munitions and cooldown but they grenade never goes off, very frustrating.
- Forward observers doesn't work at all, sad since it's a really cool perk.
-I always felt this was a feature, you sure it's a bug with the Super Glue?
-I think the Major recon plane is working as intended, you need to expose yourself a bit to use it, which is fine by me.
- It's so bad people don't even bother building cover with their Dozers.
- This is intended I believe, E8s are 100% on the move, is why their +speed+acceleration bulletin is amazing if you are gonna use them.

- It's so bad people don't even bother building cover with their Dozers.

Becasue it does not work properly. I made a thread about it log time ago. Models can't stick to green cover behind one made by Bulldozer. Instead they jump around, sit around sides instead behind etc etc


https://www.coh2.org/topic/46817/sherman-bulldozer-making-terrain-cover-bug

Sorry but it seems I deleted photos in source or something...

Becasue it does not work properly. I made a thread about it log time ago. Models can't stick to green cover behind one made by Bulldozer. Instead they jump around, sit around sides instead behind etc etc


https://www.coh2.org/topic/46817/sherman-bulldozer-making-terrain-cover-bug

Sorry but it seems I deleted photos in source or something...

Nah I believe you, I use Armor often in 1vs1 for Double M10s to counter call ins, I just despire the Dozer so much I often tech Major to get normal Shermans.

snibbidy snab

One nit-pick, they removed the vet5 reload reduction from Volks on purpose because it was decreasing the reload on the Panzerschrecks, too. Was a ninja change before the actual patch dropped because of the outrage when they released the patchnotes.

What do you think the odds are that Relic fixes any of this, especially the ones you already found a solution for in your mod?

I would still like to see grenade response timings fixed. Ordering a unit to throw a grenade often comes with a delay, the action should be instant. The same is true of issuing orders to mortars which often sit for quite some time after an order is given. Units should feel responsive, not like they are stuck in the mud.

We need time delay between grenades otherwise unit preservation would be way harder and units with nades would be evemore deadly.

Aside from grenade throwing I agree about faster unit responsiveness, especially for mortars.

We need time delay between grenades otherwise unit preservation would be way harder and units with nades would be evemore deadly.

Aside from grenade throwing I agree about faster unit responsiveness, especially for mortars.

It only matters if you are preemptively dodging a grenade before you even know they throw it. 80% of the time it still gets cast at a normal time, so how is this bug good help for dodging nades? It only is a semi-rare punishment for the grenade user.

It only matters if you are preemptively dodging a grenade before you even know they throw it. 80% of the time it still gets cast at a normal time, so how is this bug good help for dodging nades? It only is a semi-rare punishment for the grenade user.

Ah I misunderstood you. I thought you wanted to take away any grenade animation so that as soon as you click the ability the guy throws/fires the nade.

What do you think the odds are that Relic fixes any of this, especially the ones you already found a solution for in your mod?

I've no idea. I guess it's up to Relic to contact the modders, and get the fixes out of them. Otherwise it's up to the community people with ties to Relic to nudge them to look the right way.

Since, to my knowledge, Relic hasn't yet made contact even with Miragefla, yet, I would say that the chances look disproportionally slim.