Multiple Panzer Schwerer Problem

There's a serious inequality when it comes to AA from OKW. I'm not talking about the base flaks, which are also quite annoying, but the panzer schwerer.

In 1v1, it's mostly avoidable. I personally am annoyed that OKW is the only faction who gets free AA, but that isn't really all that terrible. The flak can be avoided if you are selective about where you call in your planes and even when it's close it will still take some time to down it.

But once we start having multiple panzer schwerers on the field there starts to be a real problem. Even just starting at 2, they are capable of knocking out planes with great efficiency. It's gotten to the point where in 3v3s and 4v4s allies have generally given up entirely on loiter abilities. Recons only last a couple of seconds, attacking planes often don't even last till their second runs, and the soviets fuel drops will never make it to base. Allied airpower ends up being non-existent simply because of the fact that there is more then 1 OKW player on the field.

I think the easiest fix for this would be to add a toggle between air and ground fire, so there is some micro involved and there would be less chance that the players across the map will react to every plane. Although this likely won't change much for a cordinated team, it will make things a bit better in randoms.

Or we could switch around some of the side teching costs and put some on the flak HQ so it's less likely every players flak will be active at once.

I Agree, a toggle would be a most appropriate solution.

This same toggle can also be implemented to the Bofors and Flak 38 ,if ever added (Which I believe is never)

Flak HQ AA should be removed or require an upgrade.

Yeah, a limitation would be nice. Even in 1v1, its still noticeable when Lend-Lease/Windustry gets involved their fuel drop is immediately shot down.

Okw not only has free AA in base but also cheapest mobile dedicated AA... Imo the gun should come stock on top of shwerer HQ but it shouldn't shoot at planes until upgrade. The upgrade should be cheaper than AAHT, but only a little, so unless there is a struggle about popcap, players prefered to go for AAHT over the upgrade for aditional AI and better AA.

That way choosing your path in AA is a choice, not something you go not only for free but also without any real choice or action. And in 1v1 matches you can win something by knowing opponents commander and not going AA at all if it is not going to be needed.

I'd like to see OKW buy the flak cannon for the Panzer HQ, but at the same time, if that happens, let the players pick the targets of the gun.

Currently it auto-attacks and cannot be told to attack anything else.

As for AA, give all planes set health and armour, and then use target tables as required for the various AA weapons so it's not random shoot downs.

+1

...prefered to go for AAHT over the upgrade for aditional AI and better AA

That is something more that a popcap or price issue for people not using the AAHt. Seriously by the time it takes to setup it is usually nearly killed by a single mortar.

So, you guys know that they prioritize ground units same as bofors? Meaning that you can bring tank in front of it and it shoots the tank like stupid when the plane(s) shoots/bombards something else.

Still again if OKW upgrade their base structures. Upgrades should be freed in a way that they could have 3 Shwere flaks or 3 Medical trucks or 3 repair trucks depending on what they might fancy.

Remove AA capabilities from Base and Tier buildings, problem solved. Slightly reduce Flak-Halftrack cost.

I see obvious solution for this problem:
1. If people don't want to lose their planes because of base flaks - change them on HMG bunkers. They are already useless against planes on 99%.
2. If people don't like AA capabilities of Panzer Schwerer - make separate flak-upgrade for building and give it 2 variants of working - or only AA or only ground targets. They can be switched like shells for ISU/M4A3.

Remove AA capabilities from Base and Tier buildings, problem solved. Slightly reduce Flak-Halftrack cost.

+++++ very much agree with this post
its fix for 2 problems:
1)base and T4 flak emplacemnts instakill planes
2)AA HT that is almost never used because its too expensive and because T4 and base flak already counter planes

Yeah, the gun on the flak base should be a paid upgrade. The fact that it's free has been idiotic since day 1 in my opinion. It's WAY too good at area denial. This problem is emphasized further in 1v1.

Also buff 251/17 Flak HT and flak emplacements.

1-Replace flak base bunkers with normal MG bunkers
1.2-Replace Fortifications Flak emplacement with current Flak base bunkers.
1.3-Disable USF inside base extra MG bunkers

2-Rollback the medic changes on the Med HQ. Medics are free but now the Flak HQ requires an unlock.
2.2-Deploying the Flak HQ truck without AA cost 2/3 of it's current cost but only unlocks Obers + JPIV. Upgrading the Flak in order to get the AA capabilities cost 1/3 + current medic cost and unlocks PIV + PV. In order to get KT, Flak HQ needs to be upgraded once.

The flip side to this is that loiter/strafe planes can be a real menace on maps with safe munition and cache locations. The flak truck is one of the only reliable counters. Perhaps it is too effective, but if it is changed to be less effective at AA then what is going to be improved to offset that?

As for AA, give all planes set health and armour, and then use target tables as required for the various AA weapons so it's not random shoot downs.

Than pls remove the AA from Bofors....it deals with whole armys..plus is very effective vs planes....plus it cost only 30 fuel....plus it has ground attack...plus it has an artillery mode....plus it has brace

+1 great idea.

Than pls remove the AA from Bofors....it deals with whole armys..plus is very effective vs planes....plus it cost only 30 fuel....plus it has ground attack...plus it has an artillery mode....plus it has brace

Good im not the only one thinking this then, considering that so early into the game brits can have a 40mm cannon capable of destroying early tanks, armored cars, raping infantry, artying enemy and attacking aircraft that is easily placed in key points in the map and isnt vital for unit production (if its destroyed, doesnt stop them getting High tier tanks).

yeah a toggle between AA and ground is needed on both the shwerer and bofors

Give them back free medics
Change flak for a HMG.
Upgrade for X MP and X F to change HMG to flak.


Or just remove AA abilities from it.

Or toggle with cooldown like 15sec so it won't fire after switching for 15secs. It would be stupid to attack ground target and then just switch to AA when see a plane.