Relic: Week 1 Update to the Balance Mod

OKW blob spam is going to better than ever.

Now the main AI infantry has an upgrade to be even better against infantry, the shreks go on the squads that can already defend themselves well, it's all supported by fausts (can't escape the shreks!) and the raketten has more arc.

Calling it now: All this gets reverted, and we go back to volk spam. Only way to fix this is by having a separate squad in T1 that's 3man with 2 shreks.

Seriously though, this looks pretty good. Still waiting on Royal Engie reduced cost vet and Rifle double upgrade (or Vet 3) changes.

One of the verry verry few decent posts in this thread. You know your game. And you are right about the solution too, I said it since longtime that panzerjagers need to be available in medic truck. Bravo.

The only point where I disagree is the number of models in squad. They should be 4 to avoid being one-shotted to often and cost really much like 400 mp or so and come with a default shreck.

Ah, and now we have OKW with shreks on basic enginiers (fast vet brings fast repair with vet bonuses), cheap mainline AI infantry, buffed T0 AT gun, snare, nondoc MG34 for supression. Seems i can play and win OKW T0+T1 only.

Ah, and now we have OKW with shreks on basic enginiers (fast vet brings fast repair with vet bonuses), cheap mainline AI infantry, buffed T0 AT gun, nondoc MG34 for supression. Seems i can play and win OKW T0+T1 only.

Try it versus some equal skilled players. After all, that is the point of the preview.

This is going to invalidate Universal Carrier and AEC play (Well, whatever AEC play was left).

chances are they will be given MP40's instead, and be commander dependant

That would be simply stupid and even worst for balance because they will simply copy assault grens and OKW will come back to being not that good against infantry (especially if Mp40s will be doctrinal) while burdening sturmpios with something that doesn't fit them.

Solutions for OKW re-balance:

1. Come back to shrecks on volks. You all will want that if these changes are here to stay;
2. Remove shrecks from SPs and keep all other changes.
3. Remove shrecks from SPs and fausts from volks and create a panzerjager unit, 4 members, in medic truck that will come by default with 1 shreck and cost 400 MP or so.

The idea is that OKW needs something to suplement its tanks / AT capabilities but fausts + shrecks + buffed raketen is to much!

Edit: for solution number 3, at vet 2 panzerjagers obtain the "specialized aim" ability. Cost: 35 amo. Duration: 30 seconds. Effects: improve accuracy by 40%.

there is 1 more proposed option we didnt test and thats the 4 man volks with 2 upgrades
buy yeah right now okw t0 is fun as hell , on a side note spios tend to miss alot with shreks

85 munition cost for sturm schreck upgrade...maybe integrate the minesweeper into the package please? It is just too much compare to bazooka and piats.

Relic being retarded as usual...

We like how penals perform but hey lets nerf then anyhow #lelic

Do we know if sturmpios will be able to put the shrecks away? Also will they be getting any slight vet changes due to the increase in artificial vet cause by the weapon change?

• t-34 MP change wasn't needed, the coax reduction was a good change.
  
• Capt zook upgrade is also a pretty solid change
  
• Jackson change was a fair change 10/10
  
• Goliath may be over performing vs emplacements. I mean I feel like there are already so many counters. + the 5x damage seems a little over the top and unforgiving.
  
• Battlegroup meds seem a little over the top when comparing them to the solv medics =/ maybe an equal balance would be at 6-7
  
• panther shouldn't it have its rear armor adjusted to match comet? It basically fills the same role as the panther with less AT

Do you mean to buff Panther RA to 130 from 110 ?

mg42 gren with panzerfaust snare and pgren with a shrek, awwww yeeeeah.

Fixed for you

I think that only one sherck on SP is bad remember old PG with only 1 sherck blobing their way to base ,giving them 2 sherck remove their ai and 140 mun seems a fair price so 1 can't blob cause no ai and 2 can't have more than 2 squad cause you don't have infinite munitions

overall good changes.
Schrecks to Sturmpios, give them a try. This is a balance mod and more changes are coming anyway.
Sturmpios are not spammable like volks and you need Sturmpios to repair/lay down mines/sweep mines, ergo they wont be on the front all the time, like volks do. The only think that should change, is how much vet do sturmpios gain with that schreck upgrade.

edit:
instead of increasing the arc from the raketen, they should take a look into somewhere else. Because very often, the raketen projectile hits the ground. Very frustrating when you prepare an ambush and both raketen hits everything else, but not the vehicle.

The way i see it. if you are going to give okw all the non-doctrinal tools needed to get the job done then you should bring back their old resource system from the beta. where the they have the 66% resource income and strategically putting trucks on points to connect your base gave you a resource bonus.

If not, then remove the panzerfaust from volks or at least the snare part.

Just like with schrecks, it will become the same garbage where volks are still gonna charge at vehicles, except now they are gonna punish your allied screening infantry even more.

Okw infantry simply has too much utility. that's why they camp out until KT/command panther/JT etc.

I'd rather they just removed shreks from OKW and Zooks from USF altogether, then buffed the alternatives etc.

Or reduce handheld AT effectiveness to a purely defensive role designed to deter armour, not hunt it down and kill it.

Also, what are the weaknesses for OKW as I am seeing them being patched by Relic pretty quickly. Next stop fuel price reduction for tanks?

I think a very important part of whether the Schreck on Sturmpios is going to work might be the repair kit. To prevent spamming Schrecks as a no brainer the player could be forced to make a choice: Either repair kit OR Schreck. Spamming repair Sturmpios + Schreck could possibly be a bit too much.

That would be simply stupid and even worst for balance because they will simply copy assault grens and OKW will come back to being not that good against infantry (especially if Mp40s will be doctrinal) while burdening sturmpios with something that doesn't fit them.

Solutions for OKW re-balance:

1. Come back to shrecks on volks. You all will want that if these changes are here to stay;
2. Remove shrecks from SPs and keep all other changes.
3. Remove shrecks from SPs and fausts from volks and create a panzerjager unit, 4 members, in medic truck that will come by default with 1 shreck and cost 400 MP or so.

The idea is that OKW needs something to suplement its tanks / AT capabilities but fausts + shrecks + buffed raketen is to much!

Edit: for solution number 3, at vet 2 panzerjagers obtain the "specialized aim" ability. Cost: 35 amo. Duration: 30 seconds. Effects: improve accuracy by 40%.

Each and every of these solutions is by leaps and bounds more reasonable than the Sturmpocalypse.

If they do go ahead with the Sturmpioneers, they SERIOUSLY need to consider reworking their veterancy and adjusting the MP cost. Otherwise it's going to be insane; even for a balance mod.

Sturmpioneers are NOT squishy at all

They feel squishy because they don't get Vet; currently.

They start off with 87% received accuracy at Vet0, and move on to 51% received accuracy at Vet4. Vet3 "terminator" Riflemen have 59% received accuracy at Vet3.

This means that Sturmpioneer get 15% received accuracy bonus ON TOP of Vet3 Riflemen.

You are going to LOVE those snipes

When a SP reaches Vet5, they get a cumulative 68% accuracy bonus. Assuming a target size of 20 (most medium tanks), SP will have 100% far accuracy vs enemy tanks that happen to cross their tanks. Fun!

On top of that, you will have 3 models free dishing out that Schreck-vetted AI power and spamming stun grenades.

Sturmpioneers are just another T0 unit; what changes really?

The reason that nobody ever builds more than 2 Sturmpioneers is because they have very little combat utility the moment the first light hits the field. If you've spammed 4 Sturmpioneers, you are probably going to get destroyed by the first m20. With Screck Sturms, why would you ever open your games with anything but SPs?

The main reason why schreck blobs feel so powerful is because their host is a T0 unit. This means that you can freely spam that T0 unit (Volks) without having to worry of any consequences that follows; the game has got your back, when you need it (panzerschreck upgrade).

For those of you that don't know, Panzergrenadier blobs are also effective. However it is very difficult to achieve that critical mass. This is because by the time Panzergrenadiers become available, you already had to spend a crap-ton of manpower on anti-infantry stuff. You CAN'T afford to start spamming 340 PGrens on top of what you've spent; you need to tech up and start tapping on your fuel reserves.

What we are going to see with SPs is a meta reversal. Nobody sane is going to bother with Volks until they get T1/T2 up (Volks don't have access to nades/fausts before that) -- maybe one single squad for capping.

If OKW MUST have schrecks, they should not get it on a T0 unit. It can be Obersoldaten, or it can be a completely different unit on another tier.

I actually prefer if it went back to Volks, but it be like 2x panzerschrecks and cost 120 or more munitions. Remove the StG upgrade, I find they make even more powerful blobs.

This may make them more powerful as AT, but it does mean that any player wouldn't want to waste more manpower because of the AT firepower. IMO a big reason for having so many volks at a time is precisely because they can only hold 1 schreck. Increased cost but increased numbers would rapidly drain munitions, so it wouldn't be possible nor practical to spam volks when you can't even get AT firepower upped.

I have to ask though, if they really wanted to cut down on AT blobbing, can't they just nerf their panzerschreck, or even just replace them with the PzGr.38 AT rifles that already exist in the game? if you spam volks all you get is buffed light AT that's crap against tanks.

The combination of Sturms with Shrecks and Volks with Fausts is a bad idea imo and might end up being a net buff for a faction that really doesn't need one. I'd much rather see them ditch the Shreck entirely and focus on buffing some other OKW units, like the Flak HT.

Personally find Captain change really weird (a squad upgrade for a faction that's supposed to use weapon racks?) Think they should just change it so the Captain gets one Bazooka instead of two and then don't touch it again.

OKW MASTER RACE WHERE WE AT FAM

I think that only one sherck on SP is bad remember old PG with only 1 sherck blobing their way to base ,giving them 2 sherck remove their ai and 140 mun seems a fair price so 1 can't blob cause no ai and 2 can't have more than 2 squad cause you don't have infinite munitions

That way they become just slightly better pgrens. To keep them unique, I would give them one shreck + 3 mp40s at spawn and upgrade package that removes shreck but gives them 4 stgs, holdable sweeper and increased repair rate, for, lets say 60 muni. That way you cant blob double shrecked spios with stg volks till you win, one shreck on 340mp squad with weak AI is not enough to make blobbing worth it.