Relic: Week 1 Update to the Balance Mod

yeah true. sturmpio obviously need the pzschreck buff.

because okw cant handle tanks. getting AT guns like any other factions is just way too hard... ((((((((

Everybody complained that Volks blob is too strong. Now Relic changed that and same people are still whining. Unbelievable.

hm. well why is that so. MAYBE CAUSE PEOPLE ARE SICK AND TIRED OF THAT PZSCHRECK BLOBBING?

Me thinks OKW is getting too many buffs and becoming too much like Ostheer.

So basically:
-Volks are 5 man grens with faust
-Sturms are PGrens that can repair
-MG from HQ
-Drawbacks of the raketen reduced, making it more like other at guns

OKW was fine without the schreck. Compare them to Ostheer, they get the puma stock and an AT gun without teching up, and all their great armor. They don't need the schreck on sturms.

+1 also wm dont have all this OP shit at a 33% discount as okw. Cheaper unit unlock allows to be bad. If you lose squad and replace it you delay your tanks. If okw loses and replaces squad it will still get tanks before you.


Most insane in patch is the mine nerf.

Isn´t there a hardcap for upgrades possible? You can have two Panzerschrecks on the field at once. After that upgrading them is impossible unless you lose one.

Why not give shreks to fusiliers? Now that volks have snares, the advantage of having a snare unit by getting fusiliers vanishes and they become less worthwhile to get. Replace their snares with shreks.

Also, this may make people rage, but I'm interested to hear what you all would think about giving two-shreks to obers instead of sturms? The reason why there's no controversy about giving panzergrens shreks is because it makes sense. It turns a high-dps anti-infantry unit into a designated anti-vehicle unit that comes at a high manpower price in the mid-game. I feel everyone likes this. You can't spam obers with shreks in the same way you can't spam panzergrens with shreks effectively. It's too expensive both in manpower and munitions to properly pull off, plus your Anti-infantry will be lacking. Obers could be like super-pgrens, giving them a designated choice roll: either anti-infantry w/ their current upgrade long-range or anti-vehicle with a double shrek package.

What do y'all think?

They're worried about Penals and Shocks overlapping but Fals and Obers overlapping is just fine...

People have routinely seemed to want OKW to have NO schrecks than to give them to Obers in any capacity.

Probably because they make the most sense. :|

It's nice that OKW are getting some form of infantry-based AT back, but the Sturmpioneer doesn't seem like a good option choice since they will now be overburdened with too much utility. Sturmpioneers already are close combat infantry, repairers, salvagers, mine sweepers, can plant mines and lay barbed wire and fortifications. Throw in Panzershreks on top of that and it's too much for a single squad. I assume it's going to be a single Panzershrek, which isn't enough to really achieve much. The single Panzer Shrek worked (And then was a problem) on Volks because you would get 3-4 of them and were easily spammable until critical mass because Volks are cheap, durable 5 man squads, whilst Shreks wasn't much of a damage nerf against infantry because of how often they would wipe a model. (which is now nerfed)

Giving Sturmpioneers a single Shrek is going to be underwhelming, they're an expensive and fragile squad for a single Shrek, dealing with Light vehicles in the mid game isn't neccesarily a problem because of Panzerfausts on Volks for the snare combined and the buffed Raketen is strong, (maybe just needs more durable crew), just like Wehrmacht deal with light vehicles with Grenadier Fausts and Paks. Then a single shrek on Sturmpioners won't have enough firepower for the cost and durability to scale into late game against tank destroyers and medium tanks. Alternatively, giving Sturmpioneers double shreks would probably be too potent for a 300mp squad with all that utility.

I think a much better implementation would be to give Obersoldaten the option to upgrade to Double Shreks instead of the LMG. They are expensive 4 man squads, that would lack anti infantry with no LMG and only 2 rifles, so they're certainly not going to be over powered, just like Panzer Grenadiers, but it'll give OKW a mobile and yet potent Infantry Based AT to deal with the newly buffed Allied Tank Destroyers, which is where OKW can suffer from without Shreks. It could even be a good idea to move Obers onto the Battlegroup HQ, but then lock the LMG upgrade behind the Panzer Headquarters. That way the double Shreks would be accessible sooner and would give more flexibility in terms of unit compositions and strategy.

Ultimately, giving a Shrek to Sturmpioneers will be piling on far too much utility for a single squad, compared to Obers which are a one dimensional unit that would definitely benefit from the utility, whilst providing a platform with double Shreks that would be better balanced and have better scaling against Allied Tank Destroyers.

I don't think you can just toss Shreks onto Sturms or any unit without taking a serious look at their veterancy bonuses since hand-held AT allows for such easy / rapid veterancy.

If this stupid gardening faction didn't inexplicably still have 5 levels of veterancy, it would be less of an issue.

Wow its pretty funny this. For the longest time allied fanbois in this forum have been demanding schreks changed to the less spammy sturms. Now its been done and there's uproar.

Why not wait to see mirageflas tournament tomorrow before deciding about balance or at least play the new patch before sulking?

I play all factions .

Volks shrecks is not fun and now OPW with ST shrecks, volks faust/stg, rakt buffed will be not fun again.

Relic needs to do something about OPW.

How's any allied vehicle going to finish off a Jagdtiger with its two schrek autoturrets that can simultaneously heal it back to full?

I also play all factions, this suggested change to Sturms is ludicrous.

It looks like Relic is looking at panzerschrecks as a sort of way for OKW to transition from early game to their tanks, of which relies on fuel economy. Since this means the OKW player would be largely facing light vehicles, then wouldn't it be just more practical if Volks panzerschreck was just changed to AT rifles? A blob would rip an M20 to shreds, but would get ripped themselves by a Centaur.

I also think that, at the least, the panzerschreck upgrade should be locked behind T2. The reason I think this would help is:

1) At present, the upgrade is unlocked in either med truck or puma truck. Any OKW player that wants AT dominance can go puma truck, go for puma, and until then rip with schrecks. There isn't a huge drawback to going medic truck instead, the worst is that the OKW player is FORCED to volksblob because they cannot go for vehicles, a present they're the shitty flaktrack, the unarmed IR halftrack, and the ISG which isn't a vehicle. OKW is kind of saturated with choice and not enough drwawbacks that come when picking them.

2) If Schrecks require medic truck, then going for it would be predictable for strategic gameplay- an opponent will instantly know that Schreck volks mean they went medic truck, which means no puma, which means you pump out HMGs to suppress them. They cannot get more points if their blobs are always being pinned and the munitions are all spent on dealing with a threat that hasn't materialized. Shrecks therefore have obvious benefits and more obvious drawbacks.

3) Naturally, going for schrecks means that, besides instead of blobbing you build Racketen43, the OKW player has denied themselves the benefit of useful light vehicles.

I originally wanted to suggest either Obers with panzerschreck upgrade or even locking the upgrade behind T3, but it seems to me that Relic looks to panzerschreck as more early/ mid game AT than something to be used throughout. It explains why they went for Sturmpioniers instead of Obers, to me Obers is a more obvious choice considering how limited they are in contributing to a meaningful role.

> @Kyle_RE said:
> If you've played the Balance Preview Mod, take the survey and give us your feedback!
>
> Take Survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/BalancePreview

It could even be a good idea to move Obers onto the Battlegroup HQ, but then lock the LMG upgrade behind the Panzer Headquarters. That way the double Shreks would be accessible sooner and would give more flexibility in terms of unit compositions and strategy.

+1 I Really like this idea. Heck, it might even be a good idea even without the Shreks... I think a lot of the reason why Obers sometimes feel lackluster is because of their timing where they often hit the field and have to face off against several squads of Vetted Allied Infantry and thus they struggle until they hit Vet 2.

Maybe even move Obers to HQ and require any 2 trucks to be set up (that way you can go Battlegroup -> Mech and still get Obers out in a more timely fashion).

ummmm can we reduce sturmipios popap from 9 to 7..????

I don't think you understand the whole point of moving shreks to sturms.....

I am glad Sturmpios recieved an shrek option! OKW will not be able to blob 4 man expensive squad so easily. I do have a problem with Sturmpio squad taking on the roll as pio, AT infantry, & anti infantry unit.

Whats up with the Penal nerf man!? I was looking forward to the T-1 being somewhat fun and interesting, not to mention T2 maxium nerf.

Wow its pretty funny this. For the longest time allied fanbois in this forum have been demanding schreks changed to the less spammy sturms. Now its been done and there's uproar.

Why not wait to see mirageflas tournament tomorrow before deciding about balance or at least play the new patch before sulking?

You didn't understand the problem people are complaining about. I will summarize for you: Moving shreks to sturmpios may not be the best solution but is still better than have them on volks. The problem at the moment is that they did not removed the snare at volk squads. So OKW is twice as nasty now with Shrek+snare on T0 units you will automatically build. RIP light vehicle play + RIP medium street carnage.

Whats up with the Penal nerf man!? I was looking forward to the T-1 being somewhat fun and interesting, not to mention T2 maxium nerf.

It's not much of a nerf, they just take out the ppshs from the flamethrower upgrade. The new svts are better anyways, imo. Now you can get flamethrower and still keep awesome long range damage.

> @Kyle_RE said:
> If you've played the Balance Preview Mod, take the survey and give us your feedback!
>
> Take Survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/BalancePreview

Ok so I actually TRIED a few games and the sturmpio schrek isn't TOO bad.

Now it seems that the OKW has all the versatility though. And its anti-infantry strength has increased significantly.

I say just roll with the patch, let's see what the fuck happens. :/

...

Obers are simply much too expensive (both mp and popcap wise) to perform such a role even if they could be a battlegroup unit (otherwise they'd simply arrive too late), and Sturms are a poor choice for the very reasons you've outlined. Ideally, OKW should receive an additional dedicated infantry AT unit, but I don't see that happening. Shucks.