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COH2.ORG » Forums » Parlor Room » COH2 Central » COH2 Balance » balance preview; KV1 still lumbering behind the rest

balance preview; KV1 still lumbering behind the rest

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iTzDusty
6 May 2016, 04:35 AM
#21
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Posts: 836 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post6 May 2016, 04:16 AMnee
They should make the KV1 and KV8 just give all the relevant commanders a vanilla KV-1 that can upgrade to flamethrowers.

The respective commander and unit will be better since it can perform a much better AI role.


That's a pretty good idea. Shits on call in meta a little more, makes teching attractive. Only concern I'd have is there probably aren't any voice files to reflect an upgrade.












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Devils_Brigade: man captain molo why dont you just buy and m3 drive that around instead of playing coh
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Katitof
6 May 2016, 07:09 AM
#22
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Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

KV-1 will always be medicore at best if it keeps using 76mm gun and flanking tank vet while it clearly can't flank itself.

Vet needs a rework and MGs need the same love T34/76 got.

It was kind of ignored before, because we were focused on making stock unit work first, but now we could take a look at this one as well, after all it shares pretty much all the same problems plus inadequate vet.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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TickTack
6 May 2016, 09:06 AM
#23
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Posts: 578

I think Relic sees KV1 as an aternative to the T34; even if this is the case (and there are arguments for and against) this very fact should warrant some kind of gun upgrade to match the T34 gun upgrade, as a start. It could be further balanced from that point forward.

Mira's balance patch seems the perfect place to make this change.
It's Relic's responsibility.
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ferwiner
6 May 2016, 09:17 AM
#24
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Posts: 2885

I know it will never happen but alternate, expensive upgrade to KV-85 would be cool, too :D

As for voice files for flamer upgrade: they could use engineers upgrade lines with some "tank radio" filter.
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BlickWinkel
6 May 2016, 09:22 AM
#25
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Posts: 49

jump backJump back to quoted post6 May 2016, 09:17 AMferwiner
I know it will never happen but alternate, expensive upgrade to KV-85 would be cool, too :D

Would be neat as hell, a very interesting unit. I love upgun/weapon change upgrades, and coh2 has way too few of them.
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Arclyte
6 May 2016, 11:55 AM
#26
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Posts: 692

Buff KV-1's health and give it a command tank aura that buffs allies around it
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MATRAKA14
6 May 2016, 16:26 PM
#27
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Posts: 118

Change vet bonus to reflect the heavy tank profile, adjust main gun and machineguns reliability and armour/hp considering the churchill as the most similar vehicle to this one.

Add vet abilities and remove the current one (ambush camouflage needs to be tested maybe its too much but at the same time vet 3 is difficult to get)


(historically based, already kind of implemented in the Miragefla's mod)

adjust price accordingly.


jump backJump back to quoted post5 May 2016, 18:29 PMFlying Dustbin


The heaviest tank the KV-8 can take on with the 45mm is the Stug E or Pz IV C.


Not really it struggles even against half truck, it takes forever to destroy them, especially on the move when you start to miss everything.
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BlackKorp
6 May 2016, 16:36 PM
#28
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Posts: 974 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post6 May 2016, 00:28 AMpoop
Relic only buffs OKW.

Any and all soviet buffs will be immediately revoked.


did you actually playing this game?

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ZombiFrancis
6 May 2016, 17:28 PM
#29
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Posts: 2742

Here's what you do:

Switch COH2's native language to Russian. Play British and use Churchills.

Pretend they are KV-1s. :megusta:
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
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What Doth Life?!
6 May 2016, 17:35 PM
#30
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jump backJump back to quoted post5 May 2016, 16:54 PMBlickWinkel
It would be weird to give it a different gun than a t34... Maybe if it's a slight ROF increase.
What I could see is a massive HP pool, just like churchills, though I'm not sure if it would make the tank much more useful anyway.


KV1 does have a different weapon than the T34 in game. It does more DPS.
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TickTack
6 May 2016, 18:35 PM
#31
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Posts: 578

jump backJump back to quoted post6 May 2016, 17:35 PMWhat Doth Life?!


KV1 does have a different weapon than the T34 in game. It does more DPS.

The only difference is that it reloads 1 second faster... 5.63 instead of 6.63

It's still equivalent to the worst tank gun in the game.
It's Relic's responsibility.
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ABlockOfSalt
6 May 2016, 21:17 PM
#32
avatar of ABlockOfSalt

Posts: 70

Some one needs to be the worst....

I feel the KV1 coming in at 6cps would be the happiest answer.

Make it come EARLY to bully the hell out of stuff but have it fall off in usefulness if you don't get much mileage out of it.

Give it the same treatment as the T34 (with the MG buff) and then call it a day. Its a gimicky tank in a gimmicky commander, embrace it.
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What Doth Life?!
7 May 2016, 00:09 AM
#33
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Posts: 1664

jump backJump back to quoted post6 May 2016, 18:35 PMTickTack

The only difference is that it reloads 1 second faster... 5.63 instead of 6.63

It's still equivalent to the worst tank gun in the game.


KV1 DPS: 11.17 / 20.32

T34 DPS: 9.49 / 17.25

I support the KV1 getting a health or armor buff, but I just wanted to point out that they do indeed have different damage since I recently looked up the stats for some other reason.
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ZombiFrancis
7 May 2016, 04:00 AM
#34
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Posts: 2742

Remember, those tank shells deal 160 damage. For there to be 9-11 damage per second, that's saying that it will take about 16 seconds to deal 160 damage.

One shell. Sixteen seconds.

Anyone who plays the game will immediately know that's not how long it takes to fire the first shell. Actual gameplay does not match the methods of acquiring those stats, unless both you and your opponent both drive into range of each other and stop at the exact same time and then just sit there slugging it out on flat terrain with no supporting units.

So what I'm saying is that the one second variation in reload times in a very real sense results in very little practical difference.

Also those numbers don't really apply to damage towards infantry either, considering the AoE effect and unit spread, as well as the fact that infantry only have 80 or less health. And infantry tends to be the preferable target for the KV1 to tackle anyway.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
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miragefla
7 May 2016, 04:07 AM
#35
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Give the thing 160 more health and I'd think it'd be pretty good aside from then moving to rework veterancy.

The thing can tank a lot of damage if it had more health and maybe a veterancy ability that reduces incoming damage, but forces the tank to be stationary :D
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TickTack
7 May 2016, 08:16 AM
#36
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Posts: 578

jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2016, 04:07 AMmiragefla
Give the thing 160 more health and I'd think it'd be pretty good aside from then moving to rework veterancy.

The thing can tank a lot of damage if it had more health and maybe a veterancy ability that reduces incoming damage, but forces the tank to be stationary :D

Sounds like a great idea; Relic can we pls test this?
It's Relic's responsibility.
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MATRAKA14
7 May 2016, 09:48 AM
#37
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Posts: 118

jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2016, 04:07 AMmiragefla

The thing can tank a lot of damage if it had more health and maybe a veterancy ability that reduces incoming damage, but forces the tank to be stationary :D


My initial idea was copying directly the german "dug in" doctrinal ability, that increases almost all the stats of the vehicle under this mode. with a proper, more or less moderate CP this unit could be useful in mid game while scaling to a stationary defense in late game. feels historical, feets the game, and its miles more interesting than capture territory vet ability.

some adjustments in the hp/armour, dps, vet bonus, cost would greatly help define better the role of the unit.

But please don't make it a brick in armour and hp department if its unable to deal some reliable damage against medium armour or infantry.
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Katitof
7 May 2016, 10:04 AM
#38
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Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2016, 00:09 AMWhat Doth Life?!


KV1 DPS: 11.17 / 20.32

T34 DPS: 9.49 / 17.25

I support the KV1 getting a health or armor buff, but I just wanted to point out that they do indeed have different damage since I recently looked up the stats for some other reason.

This is exactly the DPS difference coming from KV-1 higher reload speed...
The gun is equally terrible except for that single difference, only you can get 2 KV-1s and almost 4 T34s.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Myself
7 May 2016, 10:47 AM
#39
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Posts: 677

jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2016, 10:04 AMKatitof

This is exactly the DPS difference coming from KV-1 higher reload speed...
The gun is equally terrible except for that single difference, only you can get 2 KV-1s and almost 4 T34s.

4 T34s come with a tech cost while KV-1 have not tech cost.

The KV-1 can beat a PZ4 so I don't see why it need buff to the gun for the current cost. What it needs is different vet bonuses and different vet abilities as most EFA units or a complete redesign.

The gun is not terrible unless the PZIV gun is also terrible since it almost identical to the Ostheer PZIV that only has better penetration far and a Area distance.
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nee
7 May 2016, 11:03 AM
#40
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Posts: 1216

How fast is the KV-1/ KV-8 compared to other heavy tanks? If it's going to be the worst heavy in the game, it should at least be the fastest to alleviate its poor weapon stats, almost as fast as medium tanks given it's damage profile.
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