Bofors

Pak or Raketen using attack-ground from beyond visual range.

That is a counter to OKW Flak HQ, but not to the bofors. The bofors will immediately shoot back, and both Pak as well as Raketen are within the Bofors range.


The Bofors needs to be changed but it's not like it's hard to balance.

That is a counter to OKW Flak HQ, but not to the bofors. The bofors will immediately shoot back, and both Pak as well as Raketen are within the Bofors range.


The Bofors needs to be changed but it's not like it's hard to balance.

Just to be clear, the UK player would have to use attack ground in response to the AT guns' attack ground.

This still seems pretty balanced to me, especially when you park a halftrack or medical building behind the AT gun.

Just to be clear, the UK player would have to use attack ground in response to the AT guns' attack ground.

This still seems pretty balanced to me, especially when you park a halftrack or medical building behind the AT gun.

Sure, almost 600 MP to balance 280, seems pretty fair to me

Sure, almost 600 MP to balance 280, seems pretty fair to me

It seems balanced with just AT vs Bofors.

It's much more solid when AT is being reinforced, that's all.

So, what we've come up with is:
"use an otherwise useless doctrine"
"Your a whiner because my 280/30 emplacement can't be taken out with successfully with combined arms for ten minutes but immediately kills anything that gets close to it and it counters all of its counters"
Or "use what we've already explained does work if there is the slightest bit of aupport"

Land mattress makes it much kore difficult to deal with.

Why can't the axis flak perform like this?

That is a counter to OKW Flak HQ, but not to the bofors. The bofors will immediately shoot back, and both Pak as well as Raketen are within the Bofors range.


The Bofors needs to be changed but it's not like it's hard to balance.

Wait i'm not sure about rocketen, but pak definitely outranges the bofors. Only the barrage can reach it, but you can hear that coming, move, then continue your attack. Flaq HQ also has a lot more health and takes quite a few shots to take out.

Flaq HQ doesn't barrage most of its counters or "lockdown". Also losing the flak loses you your t4 and allies have a very large range of tools to deal with it.

So, what we've come up with is:
"use an otherwise useless doctrine"
"Your a whiner because my 280/30 emplacement can't be taken out with successfully with combined arms for ten minutes but immediately kills anything that gets close to it and it counters all of its counters"
Or "use what we've already explained does work if there is the slightest bit of aupport"

Land mattress makes it much kore difficult to deal with.

Why can't the axis flak perform like this?

+100000000

I tried a game with OKW and took someones sugegstion of ISGs. I made 4 as soon as I saw a bofors and they took it to town. Absolutely no problems. But we did have good map control until the bofors came.

320/60/12 is still pretty low compared to a double ost mortar or tanks. It should be more increased to at least 420/40/12. Why? Because it can kill medium tanks, insta kill infantry, big range and ultra resistant. It requires a lot of micro to kill it. Because lets face it, if you start tickling it, you will see mortars or blobs incoming 5 secs later. Emplacements are rarely left undefended..., add to that their mortar range and in 2v2 you lock the 2/3rd of the map, and send your troops attack the last third.

I don't have such an issue about the actual power of bofor, more their resistance.
When braced, which is free, they take almost no damage from everything. Even a tank is not that hard to kill. This is particularly annoying when using sector artillery or when you have spared enough ressource for one rocketenwerfer. You will use your resources for nothing if he braces it at the right time. Then wait 90sec to reload and do it again

Emplacements should either cost way more or and be more vulnerable. Brace should reduce the damage to only 50%.


MHT might be a good counter, but should I choose my commander because of only one or two units he has on the field ?

Yet, don't forget the counter barrage ability, able to destroy any indirect fire unit on the field on small maps, meaning 1v1 2v2. This makes your mortar free target practice for the brit.

The problem, as I see it, is that emplacements are very difficult to balance. On one hand, you have an extremely powerful Anti-infantry, vehicle, and Air emplacement but, on the other hand, it is completely static and repairing it can be difficult if it is under constant pressure (cancer doctrine excluded). If suppressive barrages range was reduced like I suggested then that would go a long way in making it much more vulnerable since it could no longer self counter mortars and the like. At worst, it would *force* the UKF player to build a mortar pit to go along with it (which would also be more costly if the population cost was increased on it).

That being said, I could understand raising the price up to 350/60/12. I believe that the fuel should definitely be increased on the Bofors to heavily punish the UKF player on his teching and severely punish him if he decides to build more than one.

Playing OKW against bofor/mortar pit + counterbattery commander ability and there's no counter till late game, and usually there is no late game if you cant at least contest the early and mid game.

So, what we've come up with is:
"use an otherwise useless doctrine"
"Your a whiner because my 280/30 emplacement can't be taken out with successfully with combined arms for ten minutes but immediately kills anything that gets close to it and it counters all of its counters"
Or "use what we've already explained does work if there is the slightest bit of aupport"

Land mattress makes it much kore difficult to deal with.

Why can't the axis flak perform like this?

If you give me a flak HQ instead of bofors, i would thank the heavens! It has more HP and is more effective at killing mediums. It suppresses and costs 0 population and is just an additional upgrade in tier for OKW. It's like I'm getting a unit that locks down a point FOR FREE! Do you know how hard it is to counter a Flak HQ that's set up? I usually have to wait until late game too to take it out. With proper support, Flak HQ is the same in my opinion.

I'd rather remove all high HP buildings and return the game to a more dynamic, less static base building game of OKW and UKF

If you give me a flak HQ instead of bofors, i would thank the heavens! It has more HP and is more effective at killing mediums. It suppresses and costs 0 population and is just an additional upgrade in tier for OKW. It's like I'm getting a unit that locks down a point FOR FREE! Do you know how hard it is to counter a Flak HQ that's set up? I usually have to wait until late game too to take it out. With proper support, Flak HQ is the same in my opinion.

I'd rather remove all high HP buildings and return the game to a more dynamic, less static base building game of OKW and UKF

Ok the more hp doesnt matter much because of the brace ability that buys time for support to come in and throw off attacks too strong for the Bofors and I dont know how the flak HQ is better at countering mediums seeing as how it has a much slower rate of fire and a much smaller magazine. How the hell is the flak HQ free, did you miss the 200 manpower 120 fuel price ya know the price thats costs 4 times as much fuel as a bofors and if you build your flak too close to a statistic point it has a high chance of being destroyed quickly be indirect fire which the flak HQ cant counter barrage unlike the bofors which gets to counter its own counters and if you do lose your flak HQ, you've also lost a tech and your access to medium armor which will give your enemy a huge advantage. And you also cant buff your flak HQ with a forward assembly and you can only build one flak HQ at a time and there is no OKW commander that centers around buffing its trucks. Lastly you wont have to wait too long until late game once the flack HQ is set up because by the time the flak HQ is up you are much closer to late game than when the first Bofors goes up because the Bofors is much cheaper and therefore it has a much bigger impact, god I cant believe how many times all the advantages of the Bofors have to be pointed out to people who want to justify its opness by pointing at the flak HQ and saying its the same thing when it just god damned isnt.

Flak HQ comes with teching - Soviets don't get a gigantic anti-everything gun when thy build tier 4, even though they pay about the same. So yeah, it's free. Saying it costs 120 fuel is like saying the captain costs the US player 50 fuel.

Flak HQ comes with teching - Soviets don't get a gigantic anti-everything gun when thy build tier 4, even though they pay about the same. So yeah, it's free. Saying it costs 120 fuel is like saying the captain costs the US player 50 fuel.

Ok so the gun is free (which I wouldnt even mind them changing if they made the building set up a little faster because it wouldnt have anything on it) but all my other points still apply and what the hell do you mean anti everything, show me a clip of a flak HQ taking on heavy tanks or more than one medium that isnt microed horribly or countering mortars and howitzers which are meant to take out static structures. Also with the captain if you lose the captain you dont also lose your tech you just lose the squad unlike with the flak gun which costs you a tier if you lose it and finally the soviet HQ is infinitely less vulnerable to being destroyed because it is in the base and not in the battlefield, so it doesnt need a gun to defend itself.

Flame HT

Timing is essential when dealing with these bastards. You need to force the brace, and then flank.

Although that is a tactical solution, strategically, try playing a little bit more unorthodox. By pressing higher up the map and back capping later, ideally you can control the ideal areas that a Bofors will be deployed in. Consider it like a midgame Maxim spam, you don't want them in those buildings, so you rush the buildings, same principle. A Bofors is only useful in dangerous areas; so instead, try to use timing to your advantage and focus on controlling space. Be prepared as soon as you spot the Sapper Team.

Timing is essential when dealing with these bastards. You need to force the brace, and then flank.

Although that is a tactical solution, strategically, try playing a little bit more unorthodox. By pressing higher up the map and back capping later, ideally you can control the ideal areas that a Bofors will be deployed in. Consider it like a midgame Maxim spam, you don't want them in those buildings, so you rush the buildings, same principle. A Bofors is only useful in dangerous areas; so instead, try to use timing to your advantage and focus on controlling space. Be prepared as soon as you spot the Sapper Team.

You can't flank a bofors, it rotates 360 degrees.

You can't flank a bofors, it rotates 360 degrees.

A braced Bofors has a rotation of 0*. Besides, you want to flank it in multiple groups, just by nature of practicing good fire and maneuver tactics, but also in case your assault fails. It's paramount that you have cover on the retreat. I've lost games/armies from when I've broke off an assault too late and my troops attempt to retreat after the Bofors opens up. This is naturally a very bad situation where my troops are running straight into it's main arc of fire instead of around an obstacle, or in separate groups, so that the entire army isn't wiped.

A braced Bofors has a rotation of 0*. Besides, you want to flank it in multiple groups, just by nature of practicing good fire and maneuver tactics, but also in case your assault fails. It's paramount that you have cover on the retreat. I've lost games/armies from when I've broke off an assault too late and my troops attempt to retreat after the Bofors opens up. This is naturally a very bad situation where my troops are running straight into it's main arc of fire instead of around an obstacle, or in separate groups, so that the entire army isn't wiped.

A braced bofors takes almost 0% damage.

So you're still wrong. Unflankable and even if you do some amazing maneuvers with AT, it can still brace until it gets support.