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Maxim Post-Patch

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Gumboot
2 May 2016, 22:42 PM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2016, 20:46 PMferwiner


Ofc it teleports, but it doesn't have 6 men and .50cal also has +25% received accurancy. Also you don't need double obers to wipe a maxim that is not setup in green cover, one or 2 rifle nades, depending on spacing, are enough. And it's completely fine becouse you should keep your mgs healthy and in green cover.


All of which is besides the point.

I do not understand the logic of relic changing stats on a unit that has a long standing known bug. What possible reason could they have not to fix the bug at the same time as making these adjustments. Either make all MG's like this and call it a feature or fix the one known bug!
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easierwithaturret
2 May 2016, 23:00 PM
#22
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2016, 22:42 PMGumboot

What possible reason could they have not to fix the bug at the same time as making these adjustments.


As annoying as death loop is, it served as a (crappy) means to keep the maxim balanced. It stopped the maxim from being used too aggressively by punishing it hard if it got caught out of position. I imagine it's harder to fix the coding behind the death loop than just tweaking a few stats.

So yes the Maxim was overnerfed, but Maxim spam didn't come about because it's so fun to do, it developed as a response to the chronic lackluster performance of cons, penals and guards in the anti-infantry role. I think if the death loop was fixed, or failing that the cost/build time reduced, then that will be enough of a fix for now and we can see how things play out in the balance preview after that.
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elchino7
2 May 2016, 23:17 PM
#23
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Death-loop is not a bug, is a designed choice. Now that maxims have been nerf, we can just give it the same teleport magic other support weapons have.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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Vuther
2 May 2016, 23:18 PM
#24
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I don't think it's a bug so much as a distinction among HMGs that we don't really approve of. The Maxim's got an icon on the minimap like AT guns, and it needs to get sufficient operators to run over and move it like AT guns, just AT guns don't retreat. Same thing happens to Raketens really, just no one talks about it as much since 4 men die way faster compared 6 leaving you in suspense as you watch them run over to the gun and die like flies (and that almost no one uses Raketens :foreveralone: ).
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miragefla
2 May 2016, 23:19 PM
#25
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2016, 23:17 PMelchino7
Death-loop is not a bug, is a designed choice. Now that maxims have been nerf, we can just give it the same teleport magic other support weapons have.


Except it actually requires code adjustments which may take awhile given previous track records.

You can't simply slap the MG-42 files regarding how it functions to the Maxim without breaking it. I know, I've tried.
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elchino7
2 May 2016, 23:25 PM
#26
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2016, 23:19 PMmiragefla


Except it actually requires code adjustments which may take awhile given previous track records.

You can't simply slap the MG-42 files regarding how it functions to the Maxim without breaking it. I know, I've tried.


I'm not saying it's easy, i'm saying that it's not a bug.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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Waegukin
2 May 2016, 23:46 PM
#27
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Fix the death loop and it should be good to go
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ferwiner
3 May 2016, 00:00 AM
#28
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2016, 23:18 PMVuther
I don't think it's a bug so much as a distinction among HMGs that we don't really approve of. The Maxim's got an icon on the minimap like AT guns, and it needs to get sufficient operators to run over and move it like AT guns, just AT guns don't retreat. Same thing happens to Raketens really, just no one talks about it as much since 4 men die way faster compared 6 leaving you in suspense as you watch them run over to the gun and die like flies (and that almost no one uses Raketens :foreveralone: ).


Valid point. In the way it works maxim is exactly as raketen: it has wheels, minimap angle, doesn't magically teleport or turn and has retreat instead of reverse. Maybe we just should get over the fact that coh2 has 3 standard support unit behaviours where coh1 had only 2.

Especially if it allows creating such unique and special units like raketen, maxim and DShK.
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DaciaJC
3 May 2016, 01:33 AM
#29
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Posts: 73

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2016, 19:09 PMGenObi
happily pay 260 if death loop is gone


Exactly my thoughts. Disappointed that the death loop has not been addressed yet, although I think the nerfs, particularly the set-up time, were largely warranted.
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__deleted__
3 May 2016, 01:38 AM
#30
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Still an excellent unit, can still be a-moved.
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zerocoh
3 May 2016, 04:26 AM
#31
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It needs to stop moving like the werhmatch bike of CoH 1. maxims can only move forward, that is so stupid.

for me, right now they are borderline useless, but since axis infantry are such supermans, they need to get supressed or else you will get overrun every time.
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MissCommissar
3 May 2016, 04:46 AM
#32
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Posts: 673

Just make maxim be like all other HMGs in game. Wide are of fire, good AoE supression, long time setting up. You may even save death loop after that - Maxim will be awesome, useful as support for my mass of cons and nice for defensing my points.

Nobody spams MG-42s, Vickkerses and such HMGs. Why? Cos they are supportive, no reason to make them too much. Maxim's design and conception should be changed, really.
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Jadame!
3 May 2016, 05:48 AM
#33
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2016, 23:17 PMelchino7
Death-loop is not a bug, is a designed choice. Now that maxims have been nerf, we can just give it the same teleport magic other support weapons have.


Its not a designed choice when you cant fix something and decide to call it "feature". Its a bug which was ignored so much people started to take it as something normal.

Regarding the nerf, i dont see any advantages of opening with maxims ever again, even if i decide to build t2 later it would be purely for at guns. Its either straight out new amazing penals/dshk or conscripts/dshk/shocks into usual stuff with possibility of some unusual t34-76 spam. Cost and build time nerfs was straight over the top.
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JohnnyB
3 May 2016, 06:45 AM
#34
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Dunno what to say. The spam still works fine. Saw it applied against me. I barely won, and I am not sure that it was because I forced that guy to quit or his mother asked him to throw the garbage. Not to much of a change if you ask me. But hey, I never complained related to maxims eather. If Relic wanted so much to nerf them, so be it, but it wasn't the most urgent thing i guess.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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MoerserKarL
3 May 2016, 07:33 AM
#35
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maxim spam is still viable :foreveralone: [joking aside]
Its still a good MG :)it takes time to adapted the new set up time.
And to all people who have problems against obers with maxims, you simply need more maxims. For every Obersquad you need at least 2 maxims :sibHyena:
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The amazing Chandler
3 May 2016, 09:18 AM
#36
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Posts: 1355

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2016, 20:46 PMferwiner

...


Ferwiner, please stop. Maxim is the only MG in this game that has this problem and it is a design problem, not a wrong position or or low health problem or something else. MG42 had this and they fixed that. That simple.
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Stug life
3 May 2016, 09:21 AM
#37
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Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2016, 18:56 PMpoop


it needed its spam BS gone.

but typical relic comes in with a nerf panzer sherck and destroys it.

Fixed for you
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MissCommissar
3 May 2016, 09:56 AM
#38
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Posts: 673

jump backJump back to quoted post3 May 2016, 09:18 AMThe amazing Chandler


Ferwiner, please stop. Maxim is the only MG in this game that has this problem and it is a design problem, not a wrong position or or low health problem or something else.


That's right! Maxim and DShK are only HMGs in game, which designed to be "offencive" HMGs. And only those HMGs people spam, all others are OK. Cos... what for you will spam support guns? They can't really fight against your enemy. And that strange offencive desing of Maxim just forcing you to use it like Cons, and since Maxim is way more effective than cons - people will use it, not real mainline.

Maxim should be remade into normal deffensive HMG. If it will happen - game will be much better.
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JohnnyB
3 May 2016, 09:58 AM
#39
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 May 2016, 09:56 AMMissCommissar


Maxim should be remade into normal deffensive HMG. If it will happen - game will be much better.


Yeah, right, to hell with diversity! Let's make all factions the same! :facepalm:

I don't want mirror factions.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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MissCommissar
3 May 2016, 10:09 AM
#40
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Posts: 673

jump backJump back to quoted post3 May 2016, 09:58 AMJohnnyB


Yeah, right, to hell with diversity! Let's make all factions the same! :facepalm:

I don't want mirror factions.


Diversity over balance... I always thought, that in "assymetrical balance" main word is not "assymetrical", but word "balance".

Btw, in vCoH all HMG teams (MG-42, 0.30, Vikkers commando) design was pretty same - all were deffensive. But there was faction diversity and nobody complained about it.

I think, that faction diversity should be realised not through differences of single units of same type - that's stupid and lame. Faction design is bigger, than units and tiers.

For example - veterancy system. In vCoH each faction had it's own vet system, and that was cool. In CoH 2 only one faction has different vet system - OKW. And not that much different, only 2 additional stars.

Anyway - "mirrored" HMGs won't ruin CoH2, assymetry and all that stuff. Don't worry about it.
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