MAXIMum wheels - useful or useless?

M1910 Maxim is veeery specific HMG in CoH 2. And DShK too, cos it's pretty similar to Maxim in it's working mechanic.

And 1 specific thing of it makes me wondering since very long ago - why all HMGs in game can be carried by one men on his shoulder and Maxim/DShK for to carry using that strange platform with wheels?

That platform is very problematic, I should say. It doesn't make MG move faster, than others, it doesn't grants additional protection to HMG user (and it should, cos IRL it had small "shields" around for face protection)... It doesn't give something good to Maxim/DShK at all!

But it makes it really worse! How? You could see, how Maxim/DShK moving. When they turning (90-180 degree) they don't turn instantly (like "shoulder-carry" MGs), they turning by moving on circle! Same turning pattern you can see using AT guns or tanks, like Jagdpanzer of SU-tanks.

And that moving on circle takes a lot of time, so it makes them less mobile and more vunerable to counterfire. For example, you could also see, that it may be very problematic to evacuate your Maxim/DShK even by retreat button. Cos, when you push that button it fast packup, yea, but after... it starts moving on that hell circle and spends few seconds doing it. In those seconds enemy units can shot it down and you will lose your Maxim, even if there was 3-4 mens alive.

In other words - that wheel platform devalues that "superior" setup/packup bonus of Maxim. It fastly setup/packup but slowly moving, while that fast setup/packup should be devalued by small arc of fire and small AoE supression. So we have 2 obvious minuses against 1 (questionable) plus.

I think something should be done about it. Maybe Maxim/DShK should be also "shoulder-carried" MGs. Maybe there should be better wrote patterns of moving for MGs, and maybe they should add to Maxim/DShK ability "move back", like AT guns or tanks have, cos it move pretty similar to them and getting their vunerabilites with that.

What do you think about it?

Wheels do provide some kind of bonuses to Maxims and Dshk
They have quicker turn and pack-up/set-up than other MGs

It's a trade off for having 6 men in the squad.

It's also just how the weapon worked. The wheels also functioned as a bipod set up to stabilize the gun. Go ahead and carry this on your shoulders.

Wheels do provide some kind of bonuses to Maxims and Dshk
They have quicker turn and pack-up/set-up than other MGs

How can they have quicker turn, if they should turn by moving on circle, while other HMG teams turning instantly in that direction you pointed them?! And if that slow turning should be price for fast setup/packup, then make it's arc of fire and supression better. Cos right now, as I wrote, we have 2 minuses against 1 plus. Not fair.

Jump back to quoted post14 Apr 2016, 04:32 AMDullahan

It's a trade off for having 6 men in the squad.

It's also just how the weapon worked. The wheels also functioned as a bipod set up to stabilize the gun. Go ahead and carry this on your shoulders.

6 men in squad doesn't make it better at all. 2 Axis squads with LMGs (or riflenades) will shoot it down no matter how much mens are there - 6 or 4. Look what Obers with MG-34 can do with maxim, for example. They shooting down gunner, then another soldier goes to gun, they shooting him, another goes...

Having 6 mens make that procces only few seconds longer, than for 4 men Vikkers, it doesn't make HMG more survivable at all.

And if IRL wheels platform used as stabilizer, than I suggest, that Maxim should have way better firepower, than all other HMGs. But even Vikkers deals more damage, than Maxim. So, here that platform gives nothing again.

And I can assure you - soviet soldier could carry entire tank on his shoulders That HMG would be easy one for them

Besides, there were "LMG" version of Maxim, without that platform, maybe they could try to use this?

6 men in squad doesn't make it better at all. 2 Axis squads with LMGs (or riflenades) will shoot it down no matter how much mens are there - 6 or 4. Look what Obers with MG-34 can do with maxim, for example. They shooting down gunner, then another soldier goes to gun, they shooting him, another goes...

Having 6 mens make that procces only few seconds longer, than for 4 men Vikkers, it doesn't make HMG more survivable at all.

And if IRL wheels platform used as stabilizer, than I suggest, that Maxim should have way better firepower, than all other HMGs. But even Vikkers deals more damage, than Maxim. So, here that platform gives nothing again.

And I can assure you - soviet soldier could carry entire tank on his shoulders That HMG would be easy one for them

Besides, there were "LMG" version of Maxim, without that platform, maybe they could try to use this?

6 men is a huge boon against snipers. And while they can push off the mg just the same, the maxim is beefier in raw hit points. I dunno if it's actually much more survivable because when they drop the gun they have to pick it back up again though.

Hey!
You promised your net Thread would ne about Axis back in the "way to heal Soviets" thing you threw at us!

The wheeled-MG system is a definite disadvantage because it makes it awkward to do slight moves backward, works unpredictably (sometimes fast sometimes slow) and leaves the squad very vulnerable to wipes one retreat because it doesn't teleport to another squad member when the carrier dies.

It isn't a balance issue though, the Maxim is good enough to warrant some kind of drawback. It would be nice if it wasn't so clunky and inconsistent though.

Hey!
You promised your net Thread would ne about Axis back in the "way to heal Soviets" thing you threw at us!

I meant thread in balance section Don't worry, it comes soon!

I meant thread in balance section Don't worry, it comes soon!

Now I'm relieved...am I?

My immediate thoughts



Maxim death loops need to be alleviated though. Watching the squad die like lemmings while the retreat icon flashes over their heads hurts no matter whose using it. The rest of it are just appropriate drawbacks for their quick set-up/tear-down and single-target suppression.

The rest of it are just appropriate drawbacks for their quick set-up/tear-down and single-target suppression.

I thought, that drawback for quick setup/packup is smallest arc of fire in game and pretty small AoE supression. Isn't that enough for that? All MG's in game can into "crowd control". But maxim totally can't, and that's very bad.

About single target supression - it's not that fast, actually. DShK pinning infantry fast, ok, but Maxim's supression is pretty similar with MG-42's. Only different AoEs.

Anyway, let it be so, but something should be done about it's movement. Maxim's mobility and speed hardly suffering from that "moving on circle" and such stuff, caused by that ridiculous platform.

The weight of a maxim was around 64kg. Certainly not as easy to carry as an MG42 (which in turn, weighed around 11kg)

Edit: Company of Heroes 2 isn't completely historically inaccurate

The weight of a maxim was around 64kg. Certainly not as easy to carry as an MG42 (which in turn, weighed around 11kg)

Without platform it was only 20kg, pretty possible to carry, I think.

And besides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim%E2%80%93Tokarev.

That one weight is only 15 kg. May use it.

Without platform it was only 20kg, pretty possible to carry, I think.

And besides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim%E2%80%93Tokarev.

That one weight is only 15 kg. May use it.

But then, it is no longer the Maxim1910 we were discussing.

And how would you propose aiming that thing without a platform, or pivoting it?

But then, it is no longer the Maxim1910 we were discussing.

And how would you propose aiming that thing without a platform, or pivoting it?

Well, it's little upgraded version of same Maxim

And why should it only use that wheel-platform? Wasn't there those light "3-leg-type" platforms for Maxim?

Anyway, even if it is impossible to make Maxim and DShK without platforms, maybe for using that platform and for all those inconvenience, that it causes, Maxim should get some buff?

For example - same protection or recived accuracy bonus for soldier on MG. You saw, that it has small shields around barrel for to protect gunner from counterfire. Why can't it give permanent yellow/green type protection for gunner?

Or, I had that idea long time ago, but not sure, that it can be realised good.

Make in Maxim some kind "turret-mod". When it's ON, Maxim MG fully unpacks (will take longer pack/unpack time) and can stand only at one place. But, for to turn it's arc of fire it won't need to pack-unpack again and again (it takes too much time when you use it in deffense), but just turn barrel itself on platform on 360 degree. So it will be just a static turret with gunners to turn and shot it around. Don't you think, that it can make Maxim more usefull as defensive weapon?

P.S. Hey, that Maxim-Tokarev MG may be used, as additional LMGs for Cons, don't you think so?

Wheels do provide some kind of bonuses to Maxims and Dshk
They have quicker turn and pack-up/set-up than other MGs

There isn't any kind of bonus related to wheels and moving pattern of maxim or dshk.
All of it are disadvantage.
Tear up and tear down times are a matter of balance only and can be adjusted, not related to wheels, but to short arc of fire and balance. .50 cal deploys equally quick, have wider arc and has easier time retreating.
Turn pattern makes it impossible to turn around quickly or in a spot, you always need to move a bit.
Death loop.

lol thats just how the maxim1910 was ... why would you change things that arent broken ?

Well, it's little upgraded version of same Maxim

And why should it only use that wheel-platform? Wasn't there those light "3-leg-type" platforms for Maxim?

Anyway, even if it is impossible to make Maxim and DShK without platforms, maybe for using that platform and for all those inconvenience, that it causes, Maxim should get some buff?

For example - same protection or recived accuracy bonus for soldier on MG. You saw, that it has small shields around barrel for to protect gunner from counterfire. Why can't it give permanent yellow/green type protection for gunner?

Or, I had that idea long time ago, but not sure, that it can be realised good.

Make in Maxim some kind "turret-mod". When it's ON, Maxim MG fully unpacks (will take longer pack/unpack time) and can stand only at one place. But, for to turn it's arc of fire it won't need to pack-unpack again and again (it takes too much time when you use it in deffense), but just turn barrel itself on platform on 360 degree. So it will be just a static turret with gunners to turn and shot it around. Don't you think, that it can make Maxim more usefull as defensive weapon?

P.S. Hey, that Maxim-Tokarev MG may be used, as additional LMGs for Cons, don't you think so?

I quite like the idea of the Maxim-Tokarev MG being available for conscripts as a non-doctrinal weapon, it would give the soviets something more to fight with.

Although, it is true that the maxim is a bit of a nuisance to use, changing it so that it would be longer to setup but with a 360 turning arc without having to redeploy it would give it too much of an advantage, it would be near impossible to outmanouver the machine gun in this case.

But I agree that the cover around the gunner that the machine gun actually had should give the actual gunner some additional armor to survive a bit longer. or maybe change it so that a second model from the squad is nearby ready to man the gun again as soon as possible.

So you want a 360 suppression platform only for Soviet ?

So you want a 360 suppression platform only for Soviet ?

Bofors, Flak Emplacement, Ostwind Flakpanzer (albeit, with a doctrine)

It would not be the only one.
Though, it would be pretty powerful for crowd control against infantry. I don't think it would be a good idea.