Fix for SU Defensive Tactics.

This doctrine has some cool unique stuff like anti-personal mines or tank traps.
Sadly such unique abilities can't be used because whole doctrine is not that good (in fact it's bad)

Solution.

Combine tank traps and mines into one ability.
Fix 13 pop cap for 120mm.
Add KV2.

This way it would become truly defensive tactics with KV2 siege mode which would work amazing with tank traps (similar synergy like scopes and Elephant).

#BeliveInRelic2016



I guess it should be Fix FOR but I was thinking about something else... Can mods change it?

I like it. Sounds good.

Add KV2? No, or else, give something to compensate to the Wehr Defensive commander, for instance, the PaK 43 gives you the Lefh 18 as well.

But yes, I do agree that the tank traps and mines should be a single ability, and that the M-42 is nothing I would use when I have access to the ZiS-3, maybe replace it with trenches? There was also a cancelled commander that gave the Soviets the MG nest as a buildable emplacement, maybe transfer that over to this commander instead sounds like a bit better idea.

Maybe the Wehr commander should also give players sandbags?

Nay. This is a defensive commander suitable for large team-games, where you can spam engineers and AT guns, then set them up behind tank traps while your team-mates go about having fun in the match. Changing it might actually reduce its unique flavour.

+1 Relic needs to overhaul a lot of the vanilla commanders really, so many of them aren't viable if you are in "try hard" mode.

Nay. This is a defensive commander suitable for large team-games, where you can spam engineers and AT guns, then set them up behind tank traps while your team-mates go about having fun in the match. Changing it might actually reduce its unique flavour.

It's everything but a team-game commander.

Wonder why I havent seen such thing druing my 2000hrs

Im not taking away tank traps, just adding more stuff so how adding more stuff would change its flavour?

Add KV2? No, or else, give something to compensate to the Wehr Defensive commander, for instance, the PaK 43 gives you the Lefh 18 as well.

But yes, I do agree that the tank traps and mines should be a single ability, and that the M-42 is nothing I would use when I have access to the ZiS-3, maybe replace it with trenches? There was also a cancelled commander that gave the Soviets the MG nest as a buildable emplacement, maybe transfer that over to this commander instead sounds like a bit better idea.

Maybe the Wehr commander should also give players sandbags?

Huh?
OST defensive has some good stuff.
You have trenches so why would you need sandbags?
Hull down is also welcome.
Pak43 is amazing. SU got M42
And Sector Arty, while really powerful, it's very situational.

Add KV2? No, or else, give something to compensate to the Wehr Defensive commander, for instance, the PaK 43 gives you the Lefh 18 as well.

Something like... Joint Operations Doctrine?
You know, the doctrine with PaK43 and Lefh, reckon plane, light arty barrage and arty officer.

Maybe replace KV-2 on ISU-152? KV-2 so rarely used in 1944-1945. And ISU-152 can be named as succesor to KV-2 in Soviet Army.

Maybe replace KV-2 on ISU-152? KV-2 so rarely used in 1944-1945. And ISU-152 can be named as succesor to KV-2 in Soviet Army.

Well, I have a feeling like KV2 just suits better for defensive theme with its siege mode.

KV-2 or KV-1 would both be excellent additions to the doctrine to give the damn thing a late-game. Combine with a pop reduction for the 120mm and a buff of some sort for the M-42 and it could be quite solid.

I guess it should be Fix FOR but I was thinking about something else... Can mods change it?

Done!

First of all, this means combining some of the abilities into a single one, leaving space for other options or including some of the things mention into a single slot.

-Add barbwire fields
-Add bunkers
-Increase repair speed, construction, etc.
-Include AT mines
-Easy fix which i wouldn't like: add KV1/KV2 tank.

Example:
Heavy fortifications - Sturmp CE are now able to build tank traps, trenches/barbwire fields and emplacement/bunkers.

PMD -6 mine package - CE and Conscripts can lay out either AI or AT mines.

Something like... Joint Operations Doctrine?
You know, the doctrine with PaK43 and Lefh, reckon plane, light arty barrage and arty officer.

I meant it as in it's a single ability that grants you both the Pak 43 and Lefh 18, not separately. And really tho, Wehrmacht should have access to sandbags, why can't Grenadiers, a supposedly well trained and equipped German squad, build sandbags while the Volks can, also take note that Volks can also build MG bunkers with the Fortifications commander while Grenadiers can't build anything else outside of bunkers.

I meant it as in it's a single ability that grants you both the Pak 43 and Lefh 18, not separately

wut

is2 and isu152 in one ability doc incoming

And really tho, Wehrmacht should have access to sandbags, why can't Grenadiers, a supposedly well trained and equipped German squad, build sandbags while the Volks can, also take note that Volks can also build MG bunkers with the Fortifications commander while Grenadiers can't build anything else outside of bunkers.

That was once a compensation for the conscripts for the lack of upgrades, but western front armies

I meant it as in it's a single ability that grants you both the Pak 43 and Lefh 18, not separately. And really tho, Wehrmacht should have access to sandbags, why can't Grenadiers, a supposedly well trained and equipped German squad, build sandbags while the Volks can, also take note that Volks can also build MG bunkers with the Fortifications commander while Grenadiers can't build anything else outside of bunkers.

How can you compare Pak43 and LeFH, high CP, heavy impact ablities/units to tank traps and AI mines?

Maybe you missed that USF Rifles can build FP, sandbags and mines from 1 ability.
SP can build tank traps, flak and trenches from 1 ability. Imagine with traps, trenches and flak were 3 different abilities in 1 commander.
Volks can buiuld bunkers and s-mines from 1 ability.

Therefore I can't find any reason why tanks traps and mines cannot be combined.

You can also ask why Cons don't have LMG upgrade while Grens have non doc LMG.

_________
Thanks Kobunite!

Just gonna shamelessly advertise my mod here - it reworks Defensive Tactics and a bunch of other commanders. Have a look if you're interested:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=635567216

Just gonna shamelessly advertise my mod here - it reworks Defensive Tactics and a bunch of other commanders. Have a look if you're interested:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=635567216

You proposed huge changes for Defensive Tactics (like a making completly new doctrine). Therefore not a smallest chance for this.
That's why I proposed something easy.

How can you compare Pak43 and LeFH, high CP, heavy impact ablities/units to tank traps and AI mines?

Maybe you missed that USF Rifles can build FP, sandbags and mines from 1 ability.
SP can build tank traps, flak and trenches from 1 ability. Imagine with traps, trenches and flak were 3 different abilities in 1 commander.
Volks can buiuld bunkers and s-mines from 1 ability.

Therefore I can't find any reason why tanks traps and mines cannot be combined.

You can also ask why Cons don't have LMG upgrade while Grens have non doc LMG.

_________
Thanks Kobunite!

You're suggesting defensive tactics get a premium commander unit in the form of the KV-2 which is no small feat to be honest, while if this was implemented the Wehr one would suck even more, I mean, why choose to play Wehr with all of it's shitty abilities compared to the awesome Soviet one? You get a .50 cal MG that shreds light vehicles, the best indirect fire support weapon in the game in the form of the 120mm mortar, trenches or whatever if they're combined, impassible tank traps and the KV-2 tank, compared to trenches, tank traps, hull down, Pak 43 which is probably the best thing about this doc, and Sector Arty which as you said is situational.

And yes I am very well aware that such abilities are often combined for the Western Front Armies but not for the East which is very puzzling for me, but still I can't explain to myself why the lack of basic field defense such as the sandbags for the Wehrmacht, a supposedly defensive Army as Relic have already stated with their info-graph or whatever.

My only suggestion is that if they were to really actually add the KV-2 to the Soviet defensive doctrine they should compensate the Wehrmacht with the Lefh 18 as well.

You're suggesting defensive tactics get a premium commander unit in the form of the KV-2 which is no small feat to be honest, while if this was implemented the Wehr one would suck even more, I mean, why choose to play Wehr with all of it's shitty abilities compared to the awesome Soviet one? You get a .50 cal MG that shreds light vehicles, the best indirect fire support weapon in the game in the form of the 120mm mortar, trenches or whatever if they're combined, impassible tank traps and the KV-2 tank, compared to trenches, tank traps, hull down, Pak 43 which is probably the best thing about this doc, and Sector Arty which as you said is situational.

And yes I am very well aware that such abilities are often combined for the Western Front Armies but not for the East which is very puzzling for me, but still I can't explain to myself why the lack of basic field defense such as the sandbags for the Wehrmacht, a supposedly defensive Army as Relic have already stated with their info-graph or whatever.

My only suggestion is that if they were to really actually add the KV-2 to the Soviet defensive doctrine they should compensate the Wehrmacht with the Lefh 18 as well.

You really need to update your game.......
Few facts: T0 HMG42 is way way better agasint vehicles than 2CPs DSHK.
120mm is no better than stock 81mm. In fact there is no point of picking 120mm ever.




Sorry but I must ask. What's your multiplayer experience? Because with 1 random game as SU Im not surprised you are saygn that 120 is best mortar and DSHK wrecks vehicles...