Rocket artillery vs. Howitzer artillery

How about making the arty more precise how longer the barrage is going? First it would fit somehow the reality,and second it would make stationary howitzers much better against static emplacements aka simcity. Right now if you barrage at max range only a few shots will hit the target. My idea is that every shell has less scatter then the others, so that to the end of the barrage every shell has nearly pin point accuracy. It wouldn´t be op, because you have a warning, like the red smoke from offmap arty with the first few shoots who are really inaccurate, but then the full power of 102mm shells will be unleashed. Maybe the number of shells should also be increased. Also this will give the howitzers a more defined role as area denial weapons and would differentiate them from rocket arty.

Yes, vehicle crits please.They should definitely have more versatility vs tanks.

for me all rocket artilery units should be doctrinal

All buffing of the stationary howitzers is redundant as long as even vet3 howitzers get oneshotted by multiple axis abilities and at least one sovjet and one brit ability.

They should have a short timed weak kind of a brace ability. Maybe 50% damage reduction for 10 seconds to save it from dying easily to offmap attacks when you pay attention.

I would like to add in that for those people who wish to buff artillery it would be good to take a look into this thread.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/48873/the-state-and-design-of-artillery/page/1#post_id486514

I made an in depth analysis why artillery shouldnt be any better than it is now and why most rocket artillery is far better than it should be.

I would like to add in that for those people who wish to buff artillery it would be good to take a look into this thread.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/48873/the-state-and-design-of-artillery/page/1#post_id486514

I made an in depth analysis why artillery shouldnt be any better than it is now and why most rocket artillery is far better than it should be.

So I skimmed the post, and alot I saw something about a sniper amd idk (ive got a good buzz and shoukdnt be the n here but have no life so alas...) as it is howitzers dont bring enough to the table for the HUGE man power cost... Sure its only manpower but... Damm... They need more than LITERALLY hit and miss.. Vs vehicles at least the ml20 deals some damage but the lefh is a joke
... Vs infantry the l20 has a great aoe and damage... The lefh is meh... The only thing the 600mp lefh has going for it is rof and an anti arty vet ability... Supression and crits would give... Utility and support factors that highly vulnerable high manpower investments lack... If ot was at keast cost efficient you woyld see it... At least once... Ever...

I think its definitely true that both mobile and immobile howitzers are under-performing to quite a noticeable degree. The current reason why they look really bad in comparison with rocket arty is that rocket arty like Calliopes and Katyushas saturate the target area pretty quickly, giving a high probability of kills if fired at a target rich environment. With howitzers, on the other hand, unless you nail something on the first shot a good opponent will reposition.

In my opinion, this shouldn't change. I think the primary function of howitzers should be to dig an enemy out of an entrenched position. That said, as others have pointed out there are several reasons why howitzers are unnattractive. I would change quite a few things to improve this:

1)For mobile howitzers, reduce the fuel cost. Giving up another tank for a Priest or Sexton is just a bad deadl. The 40 fuel cost for Land Mattresses seems like a good benchmark to me. Lets be honest, even with this change most people aren't going to make use of those units because they're in bad docs. But at a lower cost, they do stand a chance.

2) Reduce the CP cost of all howitzers. Usually, by the time howitzers are unlocked the game has become more mobile due to tanks being on the field. If the CP costs of howitzers were lower (again, more like the Land Mattress, they would be good counters to static, defensive play in the midgame (e.g. Brit emplacements, OKW aggressive truck placements).

3) Make immobile howitzers.... mobile. Basically, make then work like the ISG/Pack Howie/Land Mattress, but even slower. Still can't retreat. This would mean that by repositioning between volleys, you can avoid big call-ins like the dive bomb.

The MP cost for howitzers is probably about right, 600 MP is steep but any less and they would probably be too available.

Definitely not a fan of auto fire, but also not sure if a map wide suppression system is that great either. Would it make a difference to a player's choice if rocket arty cost munitions to reload while howitzers remained free as they are now?

Maybe rocket arty must be stationary/vulnerable to reload similar to the sturmtiger? I think we're all addicted to rocket arty because it's just so good with no drawback once you get it on the field.

all these changes sounds pretty nice, but if howitsers have no option to become mobile or if 1 click insta destroy ability's keep existing these changes have little to no effect

all these changes sounds pretty nice, but if howitsers have no option to become mobile or if 1 click insta destroy ability's keep existing these changes have little to no effect

Becoming mobile won't save howitzers from off-map strikes, cos you need to use trucks or tanks for to move such heavy guns as LeFH or ML-20. Even 5 man just can't move it by their own, it will be soooo unrealistic. Anyway, it will be to slow for to save howitzers from off-maps.

But, maybe they should give some kind of "brace" ability for stationary howitzers? It will not protect crews, but save gun itself from insta-killing. And will requier some player attention to control it.

Problem is if Howitzers are good people will just complain about them being insta wipe machines with no counterplay

there is something to consider. in coh1, we must stay in narrow location to capture the point. in coh2, shift + click several random locations in capture area make easy avoid any arty.

Problem is if Howitzers are good people will just complain about them being insta wipe machines with no counterplay

if your soldiers are hit, they must be insta wiped because actually probability is not good at all.
how about give them super large AOE stat and 1/3 damage?

if your soldiers are hit, they must be insta wiped because actually probability is not good at all.
how about give them super large AOE stat and 1/3 damage?

And using target tables give them a nasty good damage output vs armour

Howitzers aren't used in competitive play because they're too expensive and underperform vs. Rocket artillery. As Kallipolan mentioned, rocket artillery saturates the target area.

Howitzers seem good in campy games against friends or AI where you need to smash defensive positions; they're good on those modded maps w/ popcaps of up to 300 where popcap isn't an issue.

I don't think in coh1 there were howitzers present in competitive play, although I cannot say for certain.

Krotentoten, I have to disagree with you about rocket artillery.

If a calliope can wipe two obers next to each other, then so be it. If it's the first barrage, that's some good play by the USF player. If it's fifty minutes into the game and the calliope has been around, that is the fault of the okw player.

A panzerwerfer will not kill a full health rifle squad at full range. With no sight, the scatter is huge. Even with sight, the max range scatter is huge.

When you drive up to the minimum range, the scatter is reduced. That's acceptable. The Wehr player is taking a calculated risk.

Maybe reducing pwerfer suppression or increasing its scatter would be good for balance, idk.

In competitive play, especially 1v1, on-map howtizers aren't used that often and for good reason.

OP mentioned something about howitzers being more accurate the longer their barrage lasts. That's fine and dandy and I assume you mean to account for artillery observers directing fire IRL. The game already implements that; scatter for indirect fire is reduced - on auto fire and barrage - when the target unit/area is visible to the player.

Howitzers aren't used in competitive play because they're too expensive and underperform vs. Rocket artillery. As Kallipolan mentioned, rocket artillery saturates the target area.

+1
Even in 4v4, I can't build one as it delays tanks.

+1 to Suppression and Vehicle Crits

The big problem with station Howitzers is the infantry using the Howitzers is hard to be heal or reinforce, for OH it is easier as medic bunker or med kit, SU, well there is no option to heal them unless you got a USF or UKF teammate to heal them for you, and you need halftrack to reinforce, so they got destroy or decrew very easy. maybe should give a skill that it can self reinforce and heal up with use a CD of a barrage time. like the howitzer can fire right now but you got choice to heal and reinforce your crew, but once you choose to heal and reinforce, the howitzer is treat as fired already need wait for CD again to fire.

I like supression and crits Dislike auto fire. Maybe reducing the manpower cost and giving barrages a muni cost to help mitigate the squishness of immobile howis amd help reduce barrage spam?

Charging Muni per barrage is a rip-off, you already paid 600 man power. auto-fire would be useless, it means you won't be able to target, targets that should be fired upon. Supression is indeed good idea.

I do quite like the idea of critical hits on vehicles and suppressing or pinning infantry. Would make howitzers more appealing and give them their own unique flavor to rocket artillery.