Rocket artillery vs. Howitzer artillery

Ok, idea is simple:

Not so much people today use howitzers in game, and that's reasonable. It usually reqiuers to take s**ty doctrines (like god-hatred Royal Artillery), they cost a lot of MP, eat a lot of pop cap, and they works mostly awfull. B-4, Sexton, QF 25, and even Priest! Only ML-20 and LeFH can do something real, but they are actually bad too. They just don't worth all invests, which you should pull in them.

But... Rocket artillery, like LandMattress or Katyushas performs perfectly! They just wiping out entire squads and buildings in huge areas and do that really fast! And that's what real artillery should do. So, somehow we get, that rocket artillery today is way more usefull as artillery, than Howitzers.

"So, what's a problem?", would you ask. And I will say - all howitzers in game are doctrinal (QF 25 is not howitzer, it's decoration for my base, just like flowers **) and mostly static. Meanwhile, Katyushas, Werfers and Frammens are able without any doctrines and all are mobile. So, they are not only more effetive, they also have better survivability!

Of course, howitzers have bigger range of fire and have penetration to deal with tanks, but... For to kill tank with howitzer you should be damn lucky, cos it requiers direct hitting of vechile (rarely happens, actually) and not just 1, because direct damage is not so high. So, Howitzers as long-range tank killers doesn't work, B-4 did it well before, but now it's only good to shoot at Hitler's mom ass somewhere in Berlin. And even that big target it will miss...

And bigger range is not such great benefit, because... rocket platforms can move closely and not only get to requiered range of fire, but also make accuracy better by moving even more close to target!!! It's twice more cool, than howitzer's "long range". And of course as I said - mobility grants survivability. Such horrors as Dive Bombs of PTAB attacks are not dangerous for them.

So, I can only suggest here pretty "weak" way of fixing that - change rocket and howitzer artillery places. Make Howitzers undoctrinal and able to build after getting T4, and place Katyushas and Werfers in old Howitzer doctrines. Maybe you will find better way to fix it.

And of course, it won't work with OKW, cos they don't have normal artillery, so, let them have Wuhrframmen in stock. (FOR GOD SAKE, GIVE THEM HUMMELS ALREADY! I REALLY WANT TO PLAY AS OKW, BUT I CAN'T UNTIL THEY WON'T GET ARTY!!!).

The problem is that mobile howitzers are just so expensive compared to rocket arty, while having less battlefield impact as said rocket arty. Priests and sextons just need to be cheaper.

The problem is that mobile howitzers are just so expensive compared to rocket arty, while having less battlefield impact as said rocket arty. Priests and sextons just need to be cheaper.

Problem is - howitzers are doctrinal and ineffective, rockets - non-doctrinal and effective. What for I should take doctrine with Howitzer and use it, when I just can take doctrine with... anything else and use effective rocket artillery?

That system makes Howitzers looks like useless trash. And problem is not really about "how much they cost".

The system does not make mobile howitzers look like trash. Mobile howitzers simply are trash. This is because they are not worth the fuel investment. This is why the Calliope is popular but the priest is not. This is why nobody used the sexton, even when it was the only artillery UKF had before landmatrass. You can swap them around all day long but it would still be units that are not worth the investment.

Stationary howitzers are fine. 600mp is a fair price for what you get.

Howies are seeing more use than ever at the moment, thanks to brit sim city. And they can get the job done well, if the rest of the team plays right. And the bonus is you can spend all your fuel on tanks rather than losing it to rocket arty.

However, I do agree rocket arty does a really good job.

I think howies might be more popular if they maybe had a little more accuracy, and the price of rate of fire.. or something.

Stationary howitzers are fine. 600mp is a fair price for what you get.

600 MP + DOCTRINE, don't forget, it's important! Doctrine choise for some factions (like USSR) means a lot. And for same USSR I have better performing Katyushas without any doctrines at all!

So, what reasonable man will do - take "mostly useless" howitzer doctrine and will play in late with howitzers, but without IS/KV/ISU or take doctrine with heavy tanks or something like that and use non-doctrinal and better performing Katyushas? For me answer is obvious - second and that's how I have to play today.

Artillery good + Heavy/other good units vs Artillery bad only.

ML20, B4 and LeFH* are not worth 600MP when they are insta killed by dive bomb.

*at least LeFH has way more survability because there is only 1 (?) doctrine with recon and IL-2.

I think howies should be better agasint vehicles. Give them chance to stun/lock main gun/engine damage or any other crit.

ML20, B4 and LeFH* are not worth 600MP when they are insta killed by dive bomb.

*at least LeFH has way more survability because there is only 1 (?) doctrine with recon and IL-2.

I think howies should be better agasint vehicles. Give them chance to stun/lock main gun/engine damage or any other crit.

And maybe, let them have (small) AoE supress around explosion area? Would be nice.

Yeah random crits would really really help howies vs tanks, and make a huge amount of sense!


One great thing about howies, is they come at 8 CP. So in 1v1 or 2v2, if you know they have gone fairly defensive you can get a fast howie instead of tecking, defend it with T1/2.. and pummel their sim city / OKW trucks.

In fact, you can even ignore their doctrine altogether with this approach, because you start bombarding them at 8 CP, most of the arty counters come at 12 CP. Giving you a window to do a lot of damage.

Even if they unlock an off map, they need to get line of sight, which is tricky if defending and getting bombarded, if they are lucky enough to have a recon and arty strike, thats a lot of munis, munis they need for other stuff, and by this point you may well have them on the ropes anyway.

(this works really well with Soviet Combined Army vs OKW, cos you get Guards to flesh out your T2 build, camo for ZiS, you can use recon plane to increase accuracy of howie, and even get IL-2 bomb drop to seal the deal on any defenses once you unlock it

Rocket arty on the other hand, is true late game. Just some perspective.

Give stationary howies suppression and crits. I like that idea.

Have to agree with supression and crits (including engine damage) on howitzers. Would mean that a tank caught by howitzer fire would find it harder to drive away after 1 shell. It might also make howitzers more of a counter to heavies like the jagdtiger.

Another change I'd like to see is that rocket artillery should give away its position when it fires, not when it hits something. It would give a bit of time to check where it's aiming and move if needed. It also fits in with the real world problems of rocket artillery - it's not subtle. Since this would need code changes though it's pretty unlikely.

Yea, I mean of 44kg shells would land next to me I would probably drop down in a second.

This would also solved issue agasint a-moving blobs - it's not easy to hit them with howies but even if missed, suppression on the closest squads would be great. No more a-move blob under heavy howie fire.

Here is an idea, why not let the howitzers auto fire at a reduced rate. Or, is that op?

Here is an idea, why not let the howitzers auto fire at a reduced rate. Or, is that op?

Nah, imagine autofireing B-4... It will be horror.

I like the idea of suppression and crits.

The area of effect will have to be different for each howitzer obviously.

I always have hate how infantry can stand immediately after a B4 round like they admire the crater it makes.

I like the idea of suppression and crits.

The area of effect will have to be different for each howitzer obviously.

I always have hate how infantry can stand immediately after a B4 round like they admire the crater it makes.

Here is an idea, why not let the howitzers auto fire at a reduced rate. Or, is that op?

Well the Leig already has the counter battery fire, which does an INCREDIBLE job of destroying mortars, and rocket arty. Its really accurate, and begins to aim as soon as they position themselves to attack. So Katushkas are receiving counter fire very shortly after their barrage ends.

I like supression and crits Dislike auto fire. Maybe reducing the manpower cost and giving barrages a muni cost to help mitigate the squishness of immobile howis amd help reduce barrage spam?

auto firing is good idea because howitzers do nothing against moving target.

Crits and suppression are fine, but autofire is a bad idea.