Sturmpioneers - Uberpioneers

Best engi squad IG is Sappers

i'll just leave this here


edit: Sturm are not OP

playercard pls

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198062472736

Like forced barbed wire, annyoing thing acutally. And they can build bunkers, trenches and AA 2cm with Defensive doctrine - would like to have that doctrine for USSR for to teach their engineers to dig MG bunkers. (And yea, I know that 2cm AA suck, don't remind me.)

And of course, they only repair faster, not build. But still, in late game speed of repair of your tanks can be veery important. Its very funny to see, how my 2 soviet engineers working hard and long for to repair my IS-2 or ISU, when OKW's pioneers repairs KT or JT like they are modern engineers from MIT.

And they perform not like "1.5 eng", but like 3-4 eng. Don't forget, that they fight 3-4 times better, than any other engineers without upgrades.

3-4 Soviet Engineers would beat 1 sturmpioneer. Infact a conscript can beat a sturmpioneer. If you are losing to sturms, you're just not approaching the situations appropriately. You don't charge sturms sitting in cover, that's recipe for failure. You don't charge anyone in cover unless you have the ability or numbers to take them on (ie grenades or superior numbers, flamers). Not only that but you've stated over and over the different abilities of the two factions. You never quite seem to put any weight behind the fact that soviets get flames non-doctrinally and OKW has to be a terrible doctrine to get access to a single flamethrower. Do you have any idea the nightmare OKW faces when it's nothing but Maxim spams in buildings and all you can do is stare at them? You can't toss an incendiary grenade when you're pinned to the floor by instantly turning maxims.

You're looking at the Sturm in a vacuum, without considering what supports these units. The pop cost shouldn't be overlooked either. I'd much rather have 2 Soviet Engineers walking around, planting mines, making barbwire than having my sturm, I also get to flame shit out of buildings. A unit which needs to contribute to fighting as much as possible to keep up with the enemy.. so you fall behind mining while soviets can just spam mines without any real munition dump. You don't need to pay 90 for a single shreck, or 60 for a mg42 on your Obers, or G43s, etc.

You forget how many nerfs OKW has undergone already, sturms have been nerffed, veterancy has been nerffed, obers were nerfed, then nerffed again after losing their guns despite costing 400 manpower, requiring Tier 4 and costing 40 to reinforce. The rakten dies to any ambient shot, as it doesn't benefit from the green cover bonus that all over AT guns benefit from (including the ZiS). Sturms need a fast repair package because often you only see 1 or 2 OKW tanks in a serious game and you have to be able to repair that precious 200 fuel Panther when it goes into battle against 70-80 fuel Su76's that have the same penetration as an su85.

When balancing a unit, you have to look as the faction as a whole, and making a 9 population sturmpioneer squad that has to pick between combat and being a regular engineer is not a bargain any OKW player wants. Not unless that assault squad becomes 6 man with some armor. Then I'd agree, because everyones been screaming for mp40 upgrades on Volks so we can get rid of the shreck blobs that allies AND axis hate because it makes OKW infantyr play a bit bland without taking doctrinal units.

I'll support the Sturm change as long as the sturms become definitively better. Instead of just becoming an overpriced repair monkey.

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198062472736

Wow man I see you play all faction

they cost a lot to reinforce

Not anymore.

they dont scale well

They actually do.

they die quite fast

Only at vet0 against long range squads when you need to close while being shot at without cover.

They can't build bunker (you only play ally is obvious you don't know) and the aa emplacement Is a joke at least you know and to put the wire it takes 2 time the normal one and you can destroy it just fine (aprt for LV)
3-4 are you joking put 2 Royal eng vs 1 sturm

Ok, they can't build bunker, my bad. I just never use that doctrine, prefer Fallshirms. And ok, it takes 2 time more to build wire, let it be there. But... they repair faster anyway!

Put 2 Ostheer/Soviet/USF engineer vs 1 sturm better. Royal engineers are better than those anyway. Specially with Anvil upgrade.

To Scratched - Ok, repairspeed is fine, I don't argue.

Cost a lot for reinforce - if they will be less effective in combat - let them cost less to reinforce, I will agree with that.

Don't scale well - an do rears scale well? Or Soviet engineers? Or Ostheer? Sturmpios are perfect in early, and good in both mid and late, what scale you need for them?

Die quite fast - not faster, than my conscripts, lol. Or Combat engineers of USF - they dying even faster.

My playercard sux, they posted it sometime ago there. If you want to judge "by playercard" then you are on wrong way, bro.

Wow man I see you play all faction

We can now safely


/leave thread

Ok, they can't build bunker, my bad. I just never use that doctrine, prefer Fallshirms. And ok, it takes 2 time more to build wire, let it be there. But... they repair faster anyway!

Put 2 Ostheer/Soviet/USF engineer vs 1 sturm better. Royal engineers are better than those anyway. Specially with Anvil upgrade.

To Scratched - Ok, repairspeed is fine, I don't argue.

Cost a lot for reinforce - if they will be less effective in combat - let them cost less to reinforce, I will agree with that.

Don't scale well - an do rears scale well? Or Soviet engineers? Or Ostheer? Sturmpios are perfect in early, and good in both mid and late, what scale you need for them?

Die quite fast - not faster, than my conscripts, lol. Or Combat engineers of USF - they dying even faster.

My playercard sux, they posted it sometime ago there. If you want to judge "by playercard" then you are on wrong way, bro.

3< 4-6
You have to redo math class

Not anymore.


They actually do.


Only at vet0 against long range squads when you need to close while being shot at without cover.

kat what's your opinion?

their repairspeed is fine for their cost.

they cost a lot to reinforce

they dont scale well

they die quite fast

playercard pls

couldn't have said it better myself +1!

kat what's your opinion?

scratchedpaintjob is wrong, but the unit is fine.

scratchedpaintjob is wrong, but the unit is fine.

Ok ty

Try to stay at long range vs sturm they lose big dps x model

Try to stay at long range vs sturm they lose big dps x model

I would like to stay at a long range, but you know what - they usually move closer and closer. And when you try to move back for to keep distance - they shooting in your infantry back with their perfect accuracy and kiling them without any damage to them, because infantry can't shoot when they move back.

And besides, it's pretty random for conscripts to fight against pios, since they shoot slow, aim slow and rarely hitting target, so bad their accuracy is. They may kill 1 model per sqadshot or may just shoot in air - very random it is. But, that's more about cons...

Because Sturmpios are literally a copy and paste of Panzer Grenadiers in CoH who also had STG's could repair and do all sorts of stuff. OKW needed a unit that could effective push and have a strong early game so they made the sturm pios a builder/assault unit.

If sturm pios were nerfed, any faction could just run over them... cut them off or base trap them because they don't get viable units until later.

I don't really like the idea of sturm pios being so great either for a builder unit, and there's no doubt they are the best engineer class in the game, but I think the problem stems from other engineers just being outright useless. Buff the Soviet Engineers, Rear Echelons and OST Pioneers first.

Because Sturmpios are literally a copy and paste of Panzer Grenadiers in CoH who also had STG's could repair and do all sorts of stuff. OKW needed a unit that could effective push and have a strong early game so the made the sturm pios a builder/assault unit.

If sturm pios were nerfed, any faction could just run over them... cut them off or base trap them because they don't get viable units until later.

I don't really like the idea of sturm pios being so great either for a builder unit, and there's no doubt they are the best engineer class in the game, but I think the problem stems from other engineers just being outright useless. Buff the Soviet Engineers, Rear Echelons and OST Pioneers first.

Yea, true, my other suggestion was to give to all engineers (soviet, ost, USF both engineers and rears) special upgrade, which will buff their repair speed. It may cost a lot, but they need it!

Let other engineers be good and there will be no problems with Pios, I think...

And about "OKW needs stong early game". Really? They have best late game with KT's and such stuff, why should they have also strong early? Maybe we should give strong early for those, who has poor late, like USF? Right now, they are not so good in early with only Riflemans and Rears, no MGs, no ATs, no mortars - be happy and deal with it. So, let's better turn Rears into assault unit with Grease Guns, or even with Tommyguns. USF needs something in T0, because OKW's T0 is bigger, than T0 of any faction.

Yea, true, my other suggestion was to give to all engineers (soviet, ost, USF both engineers and rears) special upgrade, which will buff their repair speed. It may cost a lot, but they need it!

Let other engineers be good and there will be no problems with Pios, I think...

And about "OKW needs stong early game". Really? They have best late game with KT's and such stuff, why should they have also strong early? Maybe we should give strong early for those, who has poor late, like USF? Right now, they are not so good in early with only Riflemans and Rears, no MGs, no ATs, no mortars - be happy and deal with it. So, let's better turn Rears into assault unit with Grease Guns, or even with Tommyguns. USF needs something in T0, because OKW's T0 is bigger, than T0 of any faction.

Look at repair speed of rear echelon and their vet bonus and then think of weapon barracks
Edit: yea poor USF with their weak tank too bad the can't go 150/100 pop cap that would be op

I agree that "hazard package" or whatever it's called should increase repair speed for all engineers, but Sturmpios are more-or-less fine now, since Relic allowed grenades to damage buildings again. Before that it was unbearable to smoke out rushed sturms from a key building next to your fuel.

If they get a DPS nerf we need obers buffed back again because these are complete garbage and falls\panzerfussiliers outperform them by miles.

I agree with you.

Look at repair speed of rear echelon and their vet bonus and then think of weapon barracks

Their repair speed is not enough for to reapair effectivily in late game. Vet bonus... you should get that bonus before and save it, so it's pretty strange to compare units by their "vet bonuses". And I never give to rears weapons, cos they are too fragile, so they can lose my muni very fast. Better give that weapon for Riflemans of Paras, they can use it long and good.