Soviet faction

This example is bad, can you let it die with dignity?

Pity you "forget" the fact the mg42 shot first from a superior position, but i agree the example is bad.

Next time, ill make sure the mg42 is in a garrison and my maxim is in red cover while looking the wrong way, maybe, just maybe that will be enough for a good example...

The facts are these:
-Maxim is in yellow cover. That grants it -50% received accuracy.
-MG42 is in green cover (which also gives -50% received accuracy), but the models being shot at are not in cover, which makes the mg42 team effectively have no cover.

This example is bad, can you let it die with dignity?

MG-42 fired a burst...maxim gets suppressed and sets up...2nd burst, maxim still suppressed and suppresses MG in 1 burst. (Ty for ignoring the fact that the SUPPRESSED maxim pinned the MG-42)

If you think its right that a soviet player A-moves his maxim into your MG-42 (which is in a superior position), and beats it I hope you'll be the next balance manager my friend.

Yea, quite hard to fight against Mattresses as OKW. They should make way lesser AoE explosion on those rockets, because they just giving no chanses to all targets in fireing area.

But... It's still very easy faction. All what you need is putted in T0 from the very start - AT, AT+infantry, close combat infantry+engieers and fast cap car. I just don't need to build anything from tiers, I save fuel and get fast KT, which means GG. And only Mattress can stop that.

And about MGs. I met here once "Maxim spammer" when I played as OKW. Because I didn't use vechiles (saving fuel for fast KT) he was very annyoing. Too much MGs against my only infantry. But, while he spammed his Maxims (spending enourmous number of MP) I holded it and... after that came KT. Surrender - GG.

Result - Maxim spam works, but making your tier growing as USSR slower. It just cost a lot and can be counterd by very 1 vechile or tank. So, it's not that effective, as all axis players want to tell.

But... its still very easy posting. all what you need is only letting posting to players that know what they are talking about. that you do from the very start. you just don't need to talk bullpudding like like from above post.

and about daspoulos i met here once. he was very annoying. too much pudding post. but, while he spammed posts we all holded it and.... after that he got banned. surrender gg

result - bullpudding post spam works, but results in ban. you just have to make new account and call it penilebatration, but is countered by banning again. So, it's not that effective just make new account and call it MissCommissar

But... its still very easy posting. all what you need is putted to players that know what they are talking about. that you do from the very start. you just don't need to talk bullpudding like like from above post.

and about daspoulos i met here once. he was very annoying. too much pudding post. but, while he spammed posts we all holded it and.... after that he got banned. surrender gg

result - bullpudding post spam works, but results in ban. you just have to make new account and call it penilebatration, but is countered by banning again. So, it's not that effective as all pudding posters make newaccount and call it just make new account and call it MissCommissar

I really like, that instead of discussing about topic (Soviet faction + Maxim MG), you starting to discuss about my personality, my playecard (not you personally, but others), my stats... Let's make another thread somewhere "Is MissCommissar shitposter or not and deserved she ban or not" and we will talk about everything you want there. Here we talk about things, which OP suggested us.

And yea, Donnie - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWfxi0DrJjU. That's for you, my sweet :*

Russian faction is fine and is probably the 2nd strongest Allied faction after USF. You have cheap but effective infantry, excellent support weapons, cheap tanks so that you can maintain armour superiority, and finally good call-ins.

I've played as and against the Russian faction a lot of times, and I always take the match seriously since it's a very potent faction.

Russians need to be nerfed before they get buffed.

MG-42 fired a burst...maxim gets suppressed and sets up...2nd burst, maxim still suppressed and suppresses MG in 1 burst. (Ty for ignoring the fact that the SUPPRESSED maxim pinned the MG-42)

If you think its right that a soviet player A-moves his maxim into your MG-42 (which is in a superior position), and beats it I hope you'll be the next balance manager my friend.

I'm not going to be picking sides here.

However, Necrophagist is right to point that the example posted is flawed
- This has nothing to do about the Maxim being OP
- This has nothing to do about MG-42 being UP
- This has to do with the positioning of MG-42 and how AoE suppression works in the game (it's bugged as hell)

To give you an example:
- If your MG is firing at a model that is outside cover, all nearby squads will become suppressed/pinned very fast
- This is because AoE suppression only takes into account the cover of the targeted model.

This gets even worse. In the following example I managed to pin a Volksgrenadier behind green cover in 3 bursts. How? By aiming at the King Tiger, of course (high target size, no cover = loads of suppression)



PS: I don't think that ANY MG in the game can pin stuff behind green cover if all models are behind green cover.
PS2: In this example the maxim won because it was behind Yellow cover, while the MG-42 was behind (effectively) no cover.

Russian faction is fine and is probably the 2nd strongest Allied faction after USF. You have cheap but effective infantry, excellent support weapons, cheap tanks so that you can maintain armour superiority, and finally good call-ins.

I've played as and against the Russian faction a lot of times, and I always take the match seriously since it's a very potent faction.

Russians need to be nerfed before they get buffed.

Cheap + effctive infantry? Which is that infantry? Conscripts are worst infantry in game - ridiculosly slow rate of fire, low accuracy and poor survivability + they equiped with 2 worst grenades in game, which you also should pay for to get. But yes, cheap. And normal infantrly, like Guards or Storms are not cheap at all, more than that also are doctrinal.

Excellent support weapons. Ok, Maxim sux, mortar is ok, ZiS (look at stats) is worse, than PaK-40 as AT gun. Really excellent support.

Cheap tanks, maintaing you armour superiortiy? Yea, "superiour" T-34-76 really dominate on battlefield, while Panthers runing away and cry, true. And even King and Jagd Tigers can't stop those monsters and their "superiority". SU-76 is only good soviet tank in stock, but it's also support gun, not main battle.

Good call-ins? Yea, they are good, that's true. But is it ok, that USSR should survive only by call-ins, while all other faction have normal units in stock and can play even without doctrines? I guess no. And yea - JT is still better "call-in" than ISU or IS-2.

So, russian faction is absolutely not "fine".

I'm not going to be picking sides here.

However, Necrophagist is right to point that the example posted is flawed
- This has nothing to do about the Maxim being OP
- This has nothing to do about MG-42 being UP
- This has to do with the positioning of MG-42 and how AoE suppression works in the game (it's bugged as hell)

To give you an example:
- If your MG is firing at a model that is outside cover, all nearby squads will become suppressed/pinned very fast
- This is because AoE suppression only takes into account the cover of the targeted model.

This gets even worse. In the following example I managed to pin a Volksgrenadier behind green cover in 3 bursts. How? By aiming at the King Tiger, of course (high target size, no cover = loads of suppression)



PS: I don't think that ANY MG in the game can pin stuff behind green cover if all models are behind green cover.
PS2: In this example the maxim won because it was behind Yellow cover, while the MG-42 was behind (effectively) no cover.

Valid point!

But the problem how an A-moved MG could defeat a pre-set MG, I think these like these should be fixed somehow coz its utter bs.

stuff

Generally you post logically and good informed, but in this case, you (aswell as dear necrosomething) forget the fact that the maxim was hit first THEN set-up and THEN pinned the mg42.

Green cover suppresion shenenigins aside, the above is mind boggeling in and off itself.

As such, the example is good to show you just how broken maxims are.

Excellent support weapons. Ok, Maxim sux, mortar is ok, ZiS (look at stats) is worse, than PaK-40 as AT gun. Really excellent support.

sigh.
Indulge my curiosty, what on earth would convince you that the maxim is not bad?

A sign from God? stalin rising from the grave and telling you, you are wrong?

You, playing axis?

after this, im done trying and assume you are aaa no 2.

Cheap + effctive infantry? Which is that infantry? Conscripts are worst infantry in game - ridiculosly slow rate of fire, low accuracy and poor survivability + they equiped with 2 worst grenades in game, which you also should pay for to get. But yes, cheap. And normal infantrly, like Guards or Storms are not cheap at all, more than that also are doctrinal.

Conscripts are still better than Volks, all the while being relatively cheap and good utility. You have AT grenades to stop over extended vehicles and molotovs to clear buildings. On top of Conscripts, you have a lot of other viable infantry like Guards.

I'll take Conscripts over Volks any day.

Excellent support weapons. Ok, Maxim sux, mortar is ok, ZiS (look at stats) is worse, than PaK-40 as AT gun. Really excellent support.

Sure, Maxim is bad

Maxim spam has won NA ESL countless times now, so it's objectively wrong to say that the Maxim is a bad support weapon. The ZIS is also a potent AT gun which is the important part, since the ZIS is strong enough to stop most vehicles from blindly rushing towards it from a distance.

If you want to talk about UP AT guns, look no further than the 6 pounder or USF AT gun; the ZIS is very potent when compared to the AT guns I just listed. I'd personally choose a ZIS over a Pak if I had a choice between them.

Cheap tanks, maintaing you armour superiortiy? Yea, "superiour" T-34-76 really dominate on battlefield, while Panthers runing away and cry, true. And even King and Jagd Tigers can't stop those monsters and their "superiority". SU-76 is only good soviet tank in stock, but it's also support gun, not main battle.

Russian armour is good and the only reason why you don't find them good is because you aren't using them right. Russian armour isn't meant to trade in a slugging match(If you really want to though, the IS2 or ISU allows the possibility), but rather to support your main force, flanks and etc.

You also have numerical superiority which is important in 1v1's where map presence is important. I've never played a game against the Rus faction where I've had more tanks than them; every Rus player I've squared off against always had armour superiority.

Good call-ins? Yea, they are good, that's true. But is it ok, that USSR should survive only by call-ins, while all other faction have normal units in stock and can play even without doctrines? I guess no. And yea - JT is still better "call-in" than ISU or IS-2.

So, russian faction is absolutely not "fine".

The faction can survive without call ins, you just aren't playing them correctly. Try 1v1's and experience how powerful they are. You don't even need to play 1v1's, look at ESL tournament games where the Rus faction is the most picked and won the most games.

What I believe for Soviet faction is that :

1) The current tech-tree itself is predictable and boring.

The T1/T2->T3->T4 could be augmented with an alternative option to go T1+T2->T4 (T4 requires both T1 and T2 to be build and skip T3 or you can go the typical T1 or T2 then to T3 and T4) with the appropriate change to T1 & T2 fuel cost increase, initial amount of Fuel avail to Soviets and some other tweaks that are necessary not to make unbalanced.

2) Mainline infantry (Conscripts) need to scale better.

They need survive better at late game and be able to support/defend other units better. This is the 1st step to make Soviet faction less dependent on Commander.

3) The Maxim needs to be a support for infantry.

The Maxim obviously was designed for offensive support of Conscripts in order to make up for their lower DPS. Make it work like that (making Cons better alone works towards that as well).

4) T-34/76 needs to be re-thinked.

It either needs to come earlier or make it better. The time it hits the field is rather late for its current performance, its MP cost and pop-count isn't actually "low" to make it "spammable"

Valid point!

But the problem how an A-moved MG could defeat a pre-set MG, I think these like these should be fixed somehow coz its utter bs.

Usually it's a question of who fires first:
- If you spot an enemy MG in yellow-or-no-cover you can set up your MG right outside their sight range
- Once the enemy MG is suppressed, the suppression/DPS they deal is significantly reduced (and thus, you can force a retreat)

From your screenshots, it seems that the Maxpin got suppressed first. However, did it also manage to suppress the MG-42 back on its first burst? (if it didn't, then the plot thickens)

Sometimes both MGs will manage to get suppressed on their first respective bursts (i.e., the first MG will become suppressed, then RNG will allow it to suppress the other MG). From that point on, I have no idea which way the fight will swing. This is because:
1. I don't know if there exists a formula to calculate suppression-per-second for MGs (at least Cruzz doesn't know either)
2. Hence, I don't know how to calculate suppression-per-second when the MG is suppressed
3. Thus, I would never be able to calculate what happens in a Maxim-vs-MG42 when both become suppressed on the first burst.

Having said that. I had no idea that a suppressed MG would be able to pin anything (especially at that range).

Conscripts are still better than Volks, all the while being relatively cheap and good utility. You have AT grenades to stop over extended vehicles and molotovs to clear buildings. On top of Conscripts, you have a lot of other viable infantry like Guards.

In your head mostly.
Less damage, worse scaling, no stock weapon upgrades, if you go for doctrinal ones, you can't upgrade them on enemy territory, if you think AT nades side upgrade are in any way, shape or form better then then no side cost tech shrecks, then you're more deluded then Trump and ISIS put together.

You also seem to forget that volks also have molotovs, with longer range, much faster throw and no side tech.

OKW have even more of these elite infantry and some of it is even stock.

There is nothing cons do that volks wouldn't do better and you're still insisting on volks being better.
That is some zealous level of self delusion there, you might need a specialists help.

I'll take Conscripts over Volks any day.

Then you're even more stupid then aaa and lolcake put together.

Russian armour is good and the only reason why you don't find them good is because you aren't using them right. Russian armour isn't meant to trade in a slugging match(If you really want to though, the IS2 or ISU allows the possibility), but rather to support your main force, flanks and etc.

Show us replays of your play, where you use T34/76 right.
No further argument.

Show us, we'll believe you.
If you're unable to produce one, then stop with that verbal diarrhea about soviet armor being good.
Lights are good, T4 is not, you're forced for doctrinal armor every-single-game.

You also have numerical superiority which is important in 1v1's where map presence is important. I've never played a game against the Rus faction where I've had more tanks than them; every Rus player I've squared off against always had armour superiority.

Numerical advantage is pure bullshit.
You can't outnumber infantry that costs just as much, you can't outnumber tanks that have comparable menpower and pop costs.

Also, your games against hard AI in 4v4 doesn't count, so produce a better argument, because what you say is not even close to what is actually happening in game.

The faction can survive without call ins, you just aren't playing them correctly. Try 1v1's and experience how powerful they are. You don't even need to play 1v1's, look at ESL tournament games where the Rus faction is the most picked and won the most games.

Must be why all the doctrines are viable.

Oh wait, they are not, if you're not using specific 2-3 doctrines with very specific call-ins, you're playing on backfoot pretty much every single time unless you play vs players who are warrioring zealously only one side, have no slightest clue on how to play or counter another and therefore have no slightest experience with allies, like this for example:

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197990448040

You're so deluded about the faction, because you've never played it.
You have no clue about the economy, about the micro, about how the engagements are going, because you've never played it.

You're basically a virgin, screaming how horrible sex is.

Unless you'll actually PLAY the faction, you have no saying in any thread regarding the factions problems, so if you want to discuss factions problems, be sure its axis as that is the only side you have even moderate comprehension of.

Generally you post logically and good informed, but in this case, you (aswell as dear necrosomething) forget the fact that the maxim was hit first THEN set-up and THEN pinned the mg42.

Green cover suppresion shenenigins aside, the above is mind boggeling in and off itself.

As such, the example is good to show you just how broken maxims are.

From what I recall, suppression definitely affects:
- Accuracy (by -75% that's severe)
- Cooldown (x4, this affects the time between bursts)

1. I am not sure whether suppressed MGs also deal reduced suppression on top of that (or if this is just governed indirectly by accuracy and cooldown -- My attribute editor is broken).

2. From my experience, I have seen many times that suppressed MGs can suppress other MGs (or squads) back, even if said target was behind yellow cover. This happens rarely, but it does happen. The Maxim has an advantage here, since it has a chance to setup and fire the first burst back, before pinning kicks in.

3. Once both MGs become suppressed, I have absolutely no idea which way the fight will swing. Theoretically (in your example), the Maxim has the upper hand until it kills the out-of-cover model.

4. I don't think I have ever seen a suppressed MG pin any target before, though. I would love to investigate how a suppressed Maxim managed to pin the MG-42. However my attribute editor is broken.

Edited to add: Did the Maxim really manage to pin the MG-42 back 10 seconds after being suppressed, or did suppression kick in earlier?

Conscripts are still better than Volks, all the while being relatively cheap and good utility. You have AT grenades to stop over extended vehicles and molotovs to clear buildings. On top of Conscripts, you have a lot of other viable infantry like Guards.

I'll take Conscripts over Volks any day.



Sure, Maxim is bad

Maxim spam has won NA ESL countless times now, so it's objectively wrong to say that the Maxim is a bad support weapon. The ZIS is also a potent AT gun which is the important part, since the ZIS is strong enough to stop most vehicles from blindly rushing towards it from a distance.

If you want to talk about UP AT guns, look no further than the 6 pounder or USF AT gun; the ZIS is very potent when compared to the AT guns I just listed. I'd personally choose a ZIS over a Pak if I had a choice between them.



Russian armour is good and the only reason why you don't find them good is because you aren't using them right. Russian armour isn't meant to trade in a slugging match(If you really want to though, the IS2 or ISU allows the possibility), but rather to support your main force, flanks and etc.

You also have numerical superiority which is important in 1v1's where map presence is important. I've never played a game against the Rus faction where I've had more tanks than them; every Rus player I've squared off against always had armour superiority.



The faction can survive without call ins, you just aren't playing them correctly. Try 1v1's and experience how powerful they are. You don't even need to play 1v1's, look at ESL tournament games where the Rus faction is the most picked and won the most games.

Volks>Cons? I gonna say here only "Ha-HA!", because... really? Volks have better flamenade (which is also not require side tech unlocking), instead of AT-nades they have Schrecks, which are 10 times better for to counter vechiles, they have better rate of fire and accuracy and of course - Vet 5. So, it's sounds really strange, that "conscripts are better than volks".

Maxim spam won some ESL? Ok, what should I get from it? That Maxim is main soviet infantry, not Conscripts? Then soviet game mechanic is totaly broken. Put Maxim in T0 then, instead of Conscripts, if they are suppoused to be main soviet power. Again - Maxim is awfull MG, I need MG not for rush or assault, MG suppoused to keep territory safe from incoming infantry. MG-42 works perfectly in that way, Maxim can't into defense at all. Add to that, that USSR have no MG bunkers - USSR hardly lose in Anti-Infantry defense. And that's dangerous with unstopable volksblobs.

More tanks means nothing. You can make a lot T-34-76 and they still will die from PaKs or StuGs (which are actually very cheap and spammable too). Is it really better have 3-4 T-34-76 with poor gun and armor, than Panther or even 2 Pz4, which are more armored and have better weapon? I guess, in CoH 2 "quantity over quality" works in other way - "quality over quantity".

6 pounder and 57mm cost lesser, don't forget.

And OKW can't survive without call-ins? Seriously? They have top infantry in stock, top tanks (specially KT). What more you need? Only MG-34 maybe.

In your head mostly.

Nope, logic and common sense says so.

Less damage, worse scaling, no stock weapon upgrades, if you go for doctrinal ones, you can't upgrade them on enemy territory, if you think AT nades side upgrade are in any way, shape or form better then then no side cost tech shrecks, then you're more deluded then Trump and ISIS put together.

You obviously don;'t play the Rus faction if you think AT grenades are worse than Panzershreks. AT grenades more often than not cause engine damage; a panzershrek deals pure damage but doesn't deal engine damage. Any player worth their metal will take engine damage over pure damage.

You also seem to forget that volks also have molotovs, with longer range, much faster throw and no side tech.

Volks have incendiary grenades, not molotovs. Conscripts are better than Volks simply because they have utility. Their charge ability which enables them to sprint is also very potent, which allows them to force MG teams to retreat or re position.

OKW have even more of these elite infantry and some of it is even stock.

ProKW has very few elite units, and only one of them being stock which is locked behind 2 tiers.

There is nothing cons do that volks wouldn't do better and you're still insisting on volks being better.

You're getting confused. You're the only one here who's insisting that Volks are better than Conscripts. I'm telling you that Conscripts are better than Volks not because they don't scale better, but because of their sheer utility role. You're someone who wants both the best utility and the best combat performance, which doesn't help balance.

That is some zealous level of self delusion there, you might need a specialists help.

No need. If you actually played some CoH2, you would agree with me. There's a reason why the Rus faction has been a dominant force in the competitive scene.

Show us replays of your play, where you use T34/76 right.
No further argument.

Show me a replay of you using t34's and I can tell you where you went wrong. The burden of proof is on you.

Show us, we'll believe you.
If you're unable to produce one, then stop with that verbal diarrhea about soviet armor being good.
Lights are good, T4 is not, you're forced for doctrinal armor every-single-game.

Watch ESL games or actually play the Rus faction at a high level(Rank 1-100) and you'll see that the Rus faction is very potent. ESL has also provided replays of the Rus faction winning countless times, so you can see how professional CoH2 players win with the Rus faction(Without doctrines too)

Numerical advantage is pure bullshit.

Numerical superiority is a fact.

You can't outnumber infantry that costs just as much, you can't outnumber tanks that have comparable menpower and pop costs.

In your mind, everything on the Axis side costs as much or less than the units in the Rus faction.

Also, your games against hard AI in 4v4 doesn't count, so produce a better argument, because what you say is not even close to what is actually happening in game.

Implying I've ever played a 4v4, let alone vs AI. I have more than 2000 hours in CoH1 and was a top 10 ranked 2v2 British player. I also held top 10 for ProKW in 2v2 ranked shortly after it released. My credentials speaks for itself and i'm more than qualified and unlike you, I actually know what's happening in-game.

You hide your playercard, yet you question other people's skills and accuse them of not knowing what's happening in-game. The dosage of irony is quite lethal there, Katitof.

Must be why all the doctrines are viable.

They are.

Oh wait, they are not, if you're not using specific 2-3 doctrines with very specific call-ins, you're playing on backfoot pretty much every single time unless you play vs players who are warrioring zealously only one side, have no slightest clue on how to play or counter another and therefore have no slightest experience with allies, like this for example:

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197990448040

You accuse me of playing zealously for one side, yet my playercard says I've played USF and the communists.

You're so deluded about the faction, because you've never played it.
You have no clue about the economy, about the micro, about how the engagements are going, because you've never played it.

I'm knowledgeable about the Rus faction because I've both played them and played against them countless times.

Unless you'll actually PLAY the faction, you have no saying in any thread regarding the factions problems, so if you want to discuss factions problems, be sure its axis as that is the only side you have even moderate comprehension of.

My playercard says I've played the communist faction, so my claims about the Rus Army are valid.

Valid point!

But the problem how an A-moved MG could defeat a pre-set MG, I think these like these should be fixed somehow coz its utter bs.

What about a higher recc acc when setting up? That would also help with the maxims super speedy repositioning. The death loop would need fixed... But bleed for setting up in fire would probably help no?