Penals as suicide units?

Gosh, they are almost fine. Just give them -29% rec. acc. and at vet 2 and you gonna see how great they will perform.

I have suggested this:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/46927/penal-battalion-a-completely-different-approach
and there is different approach in mirgelfa mode...

I have a better idea
Lets make them 50mp, give them sticks instead of guns and remove all forms of mine detection for soviets. Voila, such historical accuracy.

I'll give you another historical accuracy, penal were armed in the same as regular infantrymen. rifles, submachine guns, machine guns and even a 50-mm mortars. You failed the test.

I played penal four weeks, they are useful five minutes, even with a 3 level veterancy they suck.
This fragile melee unit that can not in close combat.
Or increasing the range and effectiveness of ranged combat
or make them more survivable

What if:

- Penals lose their SVT-40s, they also become a lot cheaper (like 15 MP to reinforce). They can still throw satchels

- Add a global upgrade in the T1 building that unlocks SVT-40s for Conscripts. Each squad gets 2 SVT-40s that increase the squad's firepower, but not as much as other weapon upgrades such as G43s, LMGs, etc. Similar in cost to the coh1 BAR upgrade.

- Add another upgrade called 'demolitions' that allow penals to upgrade with flamers and engineers to place demo charges, because let's face it, demos are OP (and also mines, but that's another topic).

What if:

- Penals lose their SVT-40s, they also become a lot cheaper (like 15 MP to reinforce). They can still throw satchels

- Add a global upgrade in the T1 building that unlocks SVT-40s for Conscripts. Each squad gets 2 SVT-40s that increase the squad's firepower, but not as much as other weapon upgrades such as G43s, LMGs, etc. Similar in cost to the coh1 BAR upgrade.

- Add another upgrade called 'demolitions' that allow penals to upgrade with flamers and engineers to place demo charges, because let's face it, demos are OP (and also mines, but that's another topic).

Not a bad idea
Of course in order to make room for another hq upgrade molitovs and at nades should be rolled together for 20fuel amd 200mp...

I still makes no sense giving penals SVT-40s when guards run around equipped with Mosins...

Not a bad idea
Of course in order to make room for another hq upgrade molitovs and at nades should be rolled together for 20fuel amd 200mp...

Of course its a bad idea, terrible one even, because it doesn't fix anything about penals and if con "upgrade" can't compete with 45 mun upgrade while costing 60, then its not an upgrade, plus it is irrelevant from the get go, because of doctrinal upgrades if it can't compete even with them.

So bad situation for one unit would be exchanges with horrible situation for two.

The unit itself its k, its just that you need maxims to hold some ground. But in team fights, they are great.

Penals should become Riflemen with no snare, no smoke, but a very OP grenade in satchel and extra man.

We need something drastic to discourage Maxim spam

Of course its a bad idea, terrible one even, because it doesn't fix anything about penals and if con "upgrade" can't compete with 45 mun upgrade while costing 60, then its not an upgrade, plus it is irrelevant from the get go, because of doctrinal upgrades if it can't compete even with them.

So bad situation for one unit would be exchanges with horrible situation for two.

He said a global for the svts on cons like the bar in vCoH, which means for a small fee you have slightly better cons (semi penals that have utility) as for penals they become dirt cheap screens that get out at anypoint in the game and not worry about cost (dirt cheap penals+ rapid conscription?) it would be an interesting change that I would be really excited to try. And as for the demo thing, if they got buffed to be able to blast bridges again, or even a price reduction a small unlock fee would be aight.

Just take away penal guns, give them constant sprint, and let them suicide explode. There, you now have brand new Infested Terran Cultists Penals!

Penals as Ravedska would be neat, scoped SVT-40s, camo, and SMGs.

Just take away penal guns, give them constant sprint, and let them suicide explode. There, you now have brand new Infested Terran Cultists Penals!

The only unit that is suitable to be suicide unit in vet and squad perseverance based RTS is unit like goliath.

Also, please, elightes us HOW would soviets keep or gain map presence by losing units?

One could also lower the costs of penals to match their reinforcement cost(132mp). So it wouldn't matter whether you lose them or reinforce them. Hehe that would be hilarious. However just theorycrafting for fun.

One could also lower the costs of penals to match their reinforcement cost(132mp). So it wouldn't matter whether you lose them or reinforce them. Hehe that would be hilarious. However just theorycrafting for fun.

Why theorycrafting?

Don't remember what happened when osttruppen were 120mp?

What if:

- Penals lose their SVT-40s, they also become a lot cheaper (like 15 MP to reinforce). They can still throw satchels

- Add a global upgrade in the T1 building that unlocks SVT-40s for Conscripts. Each squad gets 2 SVT-40s that increase the squad's firepower, but not as much as other weapon upgrades such as G43s, LMGs, etc. Similar in cost to the coh1 BAR upgrade.

- Add another upgrade called 'demolitions' that allow penals to upgrade with flamers and engineers to place demo charges, because let's face it, demos are OP (and also mines, but that's another topic).

So you want Soviets to invest resources in basically turning Conscripts to Penals and vice versa, and to balance it all you nerf T0 units?

No thanks, I'll stick to my maxim spam.

Seriously now, problem with Penals is that anything that would make them useful or unique, you already have Shock Troops/ Guards/ Conscript upgrades. IMO in order to make Penals really relevant in the game, you'd HAVE to take away from these other units. For example, you take away PTRS from Guards and give it to Penals, who in turn give SVTs to Guards, so Guards become more potent AI whereas Penals become more relevant early AT infantry; if this doesn't happen and you just give Penals PTRS or Guards SVTs then you just have overlapping units. Just another example of Relic designing Soviets into a corner.

The only other way would be to have Conscript doctrinal improvements also affect Penals, but then there's still the problem of overlap, plus reliance on doctrines: if Penals can also get Ppsh along with Conscripts, you still just stick to Conscripts and skip T1 (or vice versa). Demolitions and flamethrower are the only thing that distinguishes Penals....but it also means Penals replace Engineers, which cost less and come earlier. IMO one would have to considerably revamp Soviet doctrines and unit abilties in order to give Penals their own place in the roster, but I persoally don't think it's worth the time, and either way Relic wouldn't GAFF.

Just take away penal guns, give them constant sprint, and let them suicide explode. There, you now have brand new Infested Terran Cultists Penals!

Yeah, but this is Company of Heroes 2, so those Infested Terrans must shoot.

SC1= exploding IT

COH2 = SC2 = shooting IT

Also, we basically have banelings now. But in this game, it can CLOAK.

Remember when Flamethrower riflemen was so powerful, relic had to move the upgrade to rear echelon?.

Penal is basically the same unit except their rifles are weaker.

the only thing the penal needs is a buff to their rifleman and a vehicle snare on their satchel.

Remember when Flamethrower riflemen was so powerful, relic had to move the upgrade to rear echelon?.

Penal is basically the same unit except their rifles are weaker.

the only thing the penal needs is a buff to their rifleman and a vehicle snare on their satchel.

smoke and the ability to upgrade to a zook/bar also contributed to the rifle thing..