Brit tier 2 idea

Well to start off
How many Brit players do you see tech nades? how many do you see nades (that aren't commandos) Well the answer is very few

Well my idea is take the nade upgrade out of the HQ and have it unlocked upon reaching tier 2. However to counter this the cost of tier 2 will be changed from 30 fuel to 45 fuel?

Why the cost increase? To make up the lack of cost for the side upgrade on nades

Another reason for the cost increase?

Simple the current issue effecting Brit's is how fast they get can that initial Bofors down

The current cost (in terms of fuel) to get down that first Bofors is currently 75 fuel
(Tier 2, Bofors tech, building cost)

With the extra 15 fuel being needed Bofors tech will be delayed by around 30 seconds to 1 minute.

As well as leading to an extended tier 1, Typically with Brits by the time you have your third unit, you have the option of getting a 4th unit or teching. pretty much 90% of Brit players would tech, Pretty much with the fuel increase you have a choice, float your manpower, or build an extra squad or two helping to deal with the Brits lack of field presents early game.


TLDR Give tier 2 cost increase to allow delay bofors but allows nades to be an upgrade instead of a side upgrade


Please note I'm not an Axis fanboi, I actually enjoy Brits as my favorite faction.

Hmm. I don't know. It does reduce early strategies for the British by one, since you cannot tech the grenades. Not that they are much used, but I would love to see people experiment with them before teching. Would be interesting.

Although, with the carrier fuel removal, the increase in tech cost and grenades added atop it does make it an appealing change. Problem is: you may want to rush teching either way by placing a fuel cache down. Your change does not discourage that; it encourages it.

Mills Bombs are simply the wrong grenade for the wrong unit. I bet that you would see nades researched a lot more often if:
- The tech gave Tommies a riflegrenade instead of the Mills Bomb, or
- Sappers would benefit from the Mills Bomb upgrade (which would make them OP)

The reason Tommies the wrong unit for the Mills bomb is:
- While they are moving, they receive a 75% accuracy penalty
- You probably need to get out of cover, where you get a DPS penalty
- Moreover, the Enfield has very bad short-range DPS

In short, to use Mills Bombs, you are kicking away your advantage for little reward.

The only time in the game where Mills Bombs are even remotely useful is the early game: you could use a UC to carry your grenade-totting Tommies to enemy garrisoned MGs.

Ask yourself this. Every time you've actually researched Tommy nades, how many times did you really get to use that ability?

PS: If sappers are going to get delayed, something needs to be done about UC repairs at least.
PS2: Are you thinking of actually having your change delay T3 as well?

if the intention is to make mills bomb more attractive and delay bofor, just change their side tech cost directly.

PS2: Are you thinking of actually having your change delay T3 as well?

With the tier 3 delay it would make it from 150 fuel to 165 fuel (note USF major is 170 fuel or 180 if gone captain)

I need to pull up OST and OKW tier 3 costs, but pretty much Brits still are cheaper in terms of there tier 3 cost. So it wouldn't delay it, it would put it in line.

Have I used mills bombs before? yes I have, MGs in garrisons are an example. Also just saying you can use nades in a defensive position.. I'm just giving an idea to make an ability that never gets upgraded actually used. Sappers don't need them imo.


With the UC carrier, in it's current forum may be an issue, however miragefla has a competitive mod where the repair ability is available straight away which works well. Plus you got to consider current brit meta of emplacement spam, how do we delay it without massive changes?

I'd be curious to give it a test run.

The reason british player go for tier2 is anti-tank capability from sapper mines, sniper, and at gun.

"Force grenade upgrade" in general is bad idea, making the faction become even more linear and give player less choice.

Rather than that, I would want to give grenade upgrade more appealing, like allow at grenade.

Yeah, Tommies are usually a long range unit that's better if static and in cover. Grenades would require tem to move, get closer to their target, and most probably expose themselves out of cover. Imo a thrown range increase would be a good buff, or a replacement with a riflegrenade like mr smith said.

Yeah it's a good idea but I don't think Lelic would go for it because with riflenaade IS literally become Gren 2.0. Imagine Gren vs IS fight boil down to who shoot riflenade first.

Well to start off
How many Brit players do you see tech nades? how many do you see nades (that aren't commandos) Well the answer is very few

Well my idea is take the nade upgrade out of the HQ and have it unlocked upon reaching tier 2. However to counter this the cost of tier 2 will be changed from 30 fuel to 45 fuel?

Why the cost increase? To make up the lack of cost for the side upgrade on nades

Another reason for the cost increase?

Simple the current issue effecting Brit's is how fast they get can that initial Bofors down

The current cost (in terms of fuel) to get down that first Bofors is currently 75 fuel
(Tier 2, Bofors tech, building cost)

With the extra 15 fuel being needed Bofors tech will be delayed by around 30 seconds to 1 minute.

As well as leading to an extended tier 1, Typically with Brits by the time you have your third unit, you have the option of getting a 4th unit or teching. pretty much 90% of Brit players would tech, Pretty much with the fuel increase you have a choice, float your manpower, or build an extra squad or two helping to deal with the Brits lack of field presents early game.


TLDR Give tier 2 cost increase to allow delay bofors but allows nades to be an upgrade instead of a side upgrade


Please note I'm not an Axis fanboi, I actually enjoy Brits as my favorite faction.

Build in the cost for nades into researching AEC or Bofors. While your at it give them AT nades.

I dont think t2 should be any more delayed than it already is since sappers are in it and therefore sweepers and Brits access to indirect. We want more diversity not less. I dislike the idea of forcing Brits to get yet another t1 unit if they want to remain aggressive for early game.

This is fine, if an AT Grenade is added or PIATs made to be as accurate as Bazookas/Panzershrecks. Otherwise, Light armour will roll over Brits.

So you're basically forcing players to pay for an upgrade that doesn't perform up to the cost as it provides inferior option and think it will be used if players are forced for it?

Basically a straight forward nerf which will unlock option that still no one will use, because its not worth it.

All AT options delayed would make 222s a rollover, or any light armour for that matter.

Also sappers come out too late as it is for the UC repair, if you think the self repair is an option then feel free to join the UC challenge!

Supposedly mills are meant to help defensively, which puzzles me greatly. Certainly no use in garrisons, no use for taking garrisons so maybe useful if pios are charging a Tommy unit in cover. This is worth 150 manpower plus fuel? I think not.

seems more like a basic nerf than an idea......

Brits don't tech grenades because mill bombs are garbage and don't fit the faction at all.

Forcing the cost into tech tiers will just make it harder for Brits to compete, and they are already pretty bad as a faction as it is. Replace mill bomb with a rifle grenade and an AT snare for Tommies and I'd accept it.

Piats don't really fit with Tommys either, unless you use pyro Tommys from a garrison. Rate of fire nerf out of cover means you can't chase jack shit with them.

Just had an hour and a quarter long game against 3 PIVs a KT and various flak HTs. Despite every squad ( about 7 on the field including Commandos) having a Piat I never scratched the paint on a single tank despite them not moving very much.

As others have said this would just force you into grenades, some games my opponent will just spam ostruppen/volks into light vehicles so how will increasing tech costs buff brits in that situation?

I'm of the opinion the reason we do not see early Piat's/Nades/Squad size upgrades is that you are paying a premium for a tiny bit more firepower in engagements that's just not worth it. You end up MP and fuel sunk while your opponent runs out a tank.

either imo

1: Switch it up to give tommies rifle nades+the tank hunter AT grenade for 150mp and 25 fuel

2: Bundle in grenades with the bren/PIAT upgrade for 150mp and 25 fuel

Rifle grenades would be a far more logical weapons choice for Tommies, a la Coh1. Wouldn't have to change the weapons racks, merely a Tommy picks up rifle grenades and a sapper piats.

Not so sure about the AT grenades from the tank hunters as frankly they aren't very effective.

There is also the question of mines, pushing back T1 would delay every AT option the Brits possess.

Would make a lot more sense if the defensive infantry, aka Tommies, could plant mines and the assault infantry, sappers, could throw mills bombs.

I like the idea, but I'm not sure delaying sappers and the AT gun is the best idea.

This isn't a good idea. Mills Bombs aren't researched because Infantry Sections (IS) just aren't going to use them. Increasing tech costs without providing any actual compensation for it weakens the UKF mid-game which is not overly powerful already.

On the subject of Mills Bombs, replacing them with a rifle grenade or moving the ability to Royal Engineers (RE) would make it more attractive but is still 150/15 for a solution that weakens Grenadiers or buffs the already OP utility of the REs without adjusting ISs.

Miragefla's solution (Add HEAT grenades to standard ISs, make it require the upgrade) is better because it provides the UKF with a much-needed snare and a reason to build the upgrade.

Rifle grenades would be a far more logical weapons choice for Tommies, a la Coh1. Wouldn't have to change the weapons racks, merely a Tommy picks up rifle grenades and a sapper piats.

Not so sure about the AT grenades from the tank hunters as frankly they aren't very effective.

There is also the question of mines, pushing back T1 would delay every AT option the Brits possess.

Would make a lot more sense if the defensive infantry, aka Tommies, could plant mines and the assault infantry, sappers, could throw mills bombs.

Arguably, PIATs are well-designed for ISs. They have the most range of any infantry AT weapon at 45, perfectly suiting long-range superiority units like ISs. There are just two problems:

- The projectile speed and scatter values of the PIAT make it impossible to hit anything without attack-ground micro.

- The IS cover bonus is implemented in a way that makes it the worst unit to put weapon upgrades on (full explanation here).


The weakness of HEAT grenades is a straight balance issue. They cost the same amount as other snares while doing half the damage.

Letting ISs plant mines and REs throw Mills Bombs is a great idea.