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russian armor

Remove Terminator Vet OR Buff Axis Elite

23 Feb 2016, 21:59 PM
#121
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

So tech required 15 muni smoke blocking Los is OP, but 15 muni incendiary rounds killing hypothetically infinite light vehicles for 45 secs is fine Kappa
23 Feb 2016, 22:12 PM
#122
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 960

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Feb 2016, 20:41 PMKatitof


(...math...)

Math says grens reinforce for slightly LESS then other squads in comparison to conscripts for example.


Grens lose 1 model (3/4):
Total HP pool -25%
Total DPS -25%
Total models -25%
DPS vs. remaining 3 models +8% (since each takes 33% now)

Rifles lose 1 model (4/5):
Total HP pool -20%
Total DPS -20%
Total models -20%
DPS vs. remaining 4 models +5% (each takes 25% now)

Continued below



Every time a gren squad takes a loss, its effectiveness drops FAR more than any other mainline squad in the game. This snowballs as losses increase at a quicker rate than any other squad, meaning they need to retreat sooner, reducing field time/presence. In addition, the cost per loss is greater, even though the chance for a loss is also greater, resulting in a much higher combat-upkeep than other squads.

Logic says they should cost less.




23 Feb 2016, 22:28 PM
#123
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Grens lose 1 model (3/4):
Total HP pool -25%
Total DPS -25%
Total models -25%
DPS vs. remaining 3 models +8% (since each takes 33% now)

Rifles lose 1 model (4/5):
Total HP pool -20%
Total DPS -20%
Total models -20%
DPS vs. remaining 4 models +5% (each takes 25% now)

Continued below



Every time a gren squad takes a loss, its effectiveness drops FAR more than any other mainline squad in the game. This snowballs as losses increase at a quicker rate than any other squad, meaning they need to retreat sooner, reducing field time/presence. In addition, the cost per loss is greater, even though the chance for a loss is also greater, resulting in a much higher combat-upkeep than other squads.

Logic says they should cost less.





Yeah, except its Ost who have sniper behind them, not USF.

You're suppose to screen for sniper/HMG and let them do the magic. Grens aren't meant to be on pair with rifles. Gren models are also more durable on model to model basis then rifles.
If you're not dropping rifle models faster or just as fast, you're doing something wrong.

The only reason why USF doesn't auto loses against that is because of squads on tech.

And last but not least, there is 251 which can keep your squads on field.
23 Feb 2016, 22:45 PM
#124
avatar of Hans G. Schultz

Posts: 875 | Subs: 2

If only Grens could have G43s & LMG42 like they used to...
24 Feb 2016, 06:34 AM
#125
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

If only Grens could have G43s & LMG42 like they used to...


there's like three doctrines with the g43, and one them is rarely used.
24 Feb 2016, 15:20 PM
#126
avatar of Hans G. Schultz

Posts: 875 | Subs: 2



there's like three doctrines with the g43, and one them is rarely used.

And... ?
25 Feb 2016, 19:36 PM
#127
avatar of strafniki

Posts: 558 | Subs: 1

Axis infantry are basically fine but the 1919 Rifle blob is probably too strong, especially when they're backed by the Major and the Ambulance. The shortened retreat distance and the best healing in the game helps a lot.


remove forward retreat points. game fixed
25 Feb 2016, 19:52 PM
#128
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919



remove forward retreat points. game fixed


+1 That's it.

Especially on larger maps in the big game modes FRPs really encourage blobbing and gives USF and OKW (and brits) such a huge advantage over SU/Ostheer. Allow forward healing and forward reinforcing but please remove retreat mechanic from OKW truck/Ambulance/Glider/Forward Assembly and Major (did I forget one?).
25 Feb 2016, 19:57 PM
#129
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919



remove forward retreat points. game fixed


+1 That's it.

Especially on larger maps in the big game modes FRPs really encourage blobbing and gives USF and OKW (and brits) such a huge advantage over SU/Ostheer. Allow forward healing and forward reinforcing but please remove retreat mechanic from OKW truck/Ambulance/Glider/Forward Assembly and Major (did I forget one?).
25 Feb 2016, 20:07 PM
#130
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 960

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Feb 2016, 22:28 PMKatitof

Yeah, except its Ost who have sniper behind them, not USF.

You're suppose to screen for sniper/HMG and let them do the magic. Grens aren't meant to be on pair with rifles. Gren models are also more durable on model to model basis then rifles.
If you're not dropping rifle models faster or just as fast, you're doing something wrong.

The only reason why USF doesn't auto loses against that is because of squads on tech.

And last but not least, there is 251 which can keep your squads on field.


And after very early-game, the USF can have an M3/Quad/Etc. behind them. That's why I suggested the "bolster" ability should be locked behind T3 (as a separate upgrade). Early/mid game would be exactly the same, and late would simply give a slight boost to Grens.

And while Ost has a 251, USF has the Medic truck, which can heal on top of reinforcing... with a Major setting an FRP at it.
25 Feb 2016, 23:25 PM
#131
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500

Nobody builds 251 halftracks for good reason.
25 Feb 2016, 23:28 PM
#132
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Regardless, real issue was identified and confirmed by devs that its there for 4 months already, it has nothing to do with balance and this thread is kind of useless now.
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