OKW AA Truck

That is correct.
The cost of setting it up is immense, and you are seriously overblowing it's effectiveness on the field. It does not have brace, it does not outrange AT guns, and Sturmpios have the lowest repair speed out of all repair units. It does not require the combined arms approach of a Bofors, nor is it as cheap, nor does it wipe infantry in under a second. Get one tank destroyer, one AT gun or one indirect fire unit and start firing at it.

Lmao this is so gardening ridiculous. On the one hand, you insist "l2p" re: killing the truck, then you suggest using "one AT gun" as a reliable way to kite the thing as if any OKW player who has been playing the game for more than 30 seconds will lose his Schwerer to a single ATG attacking ground.

The Schwerer is simply too potent an emplacement in its current state for what it costs the OKW player. There is nothing unreasonable about suggesting that it is overperforming for its cost, same as any other unit in the game.

It suppresses, snipes, and kills infantry at long range, it annihilates light vehicles and armor, it reliably penetrates all medium armor except the Easy 8, T-34/85, and maybe Cromwell, and it shoots down planes consistently. It is by far the most versatile and effective emplacement in the game, and it is constructed every game and costs nothing beyond OKW's normal tech costs.

Whether you consider it free or "part of the price" of OKW's teching, it overperforms for what the OKW player pays for it, relative to what other factions get for teching to a comparable level.

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Well it is rather odd having seen threads stating that apparently the Captain and Lieutenant are free, yet this is clearly not. All I would say is if people want an extra cost on LT and CPT, then the flak should get slapped with a fuel/munitions cost to construct the cannon.

Lmao this is so gardening ridiculous. On the one hand, you insist "l2p" re: killing the truck, then you suggest using "one AT gun" as a reliable way to kite the thing as if any OKW player who has been playing the game for more than 30 seconds will lose his Schwerer to a single ATG attacking ground.

The Schwerer is simply too potent an emplacement in its current state for what it costs the OKW player. There is nothing unreasonable about suggesting that it is overperforming for its cost, same as any other unit in the game.

It suppresses, snipes, and kills infantry at long range, it annihilates light vehicles and armor, it reliably penetrates all medium armor except the Easy 8, T-34/85, and maybe Cromwell, and it shoots down planes consistently. It is by far the most versatile and effective emplacement in the game, and it is constructed every game and costs nothing beyond OKW's normal tech costs.

Whether you consider it free or "part of the price" of OKW's teching, it overperforms for what the OKW player pays for it, relative to what other factions get for teching to a comparable level.

And what, in your equations, do you evaluate is the cost for the risk involved in it being destroyed? ie. ending medium armor production for at least five minutes.

USF T4 grants them FRP and best arty ingame for free Kappa

USF T4 grants them FRP and best arty ingame for free Kappa

Good idea, swap out Major for IR Paths, fixing USF's FRP and Major arty being awful

Rename Recon Company to FRP Company, since we all know what'd be the purpose of that Company then.

Actually

that would be kinda cool

And what, in your equations, do you evaluate is the cost for the risk involved in it being destroyed? ie. ending medium armor production for at least five minutes.

Schwerer exists because OKW was supposed to have a small, expensive army that could be overrun by hordes of SU and USF soldiers like Cheesetruppen overwhelm the Brits. Schwerer gave them flexibility and allowed them to maintain map control and their precious 66% income. Obviously this is no longer the case since OKW typically has as much if not more infantry than Allies these days AND they have the Kubel that can scoot around the map and cap.

You are right though that losing it can very well mean GG for the OKW player. So the obvious solution is to give the OKW player a choice: the Schwerer HQ when first constructed has no super cannon on top. If OKW builds it somewhere it's exposed, then they can pay an additional MP and fuel cost to unlock the gun. The price should be comparable to the Bofors. Option 2 is to build the truck somewhere safe, like in base sector, and spend the resources on quicker armor instead.

I really think this is a fair compromise.

I don't consider bugs when talking about balance.

Then you should not carry a discution about balance that involves a bugged unit / ability. Because, you know, this bug is present on the field too, and we see it every day so it can't just be ignored.

So OKW has what viable defensive non-doctrinal weapons against enemy infantry and airplanes?

- Look at me i takes ages to open these sides AA-Ht. The thing cant even default its gun to the rear like US counter part so you cannot even use corners of buildings with that tincan... Seeing enemy field one is losing one squad because i cannot stop laughing and start retreating fast enough.
- Luch can be a game changer OKW can either win or lose the game by luchs... Cant hurt planes tough.
- Flak encamplacement (can they btw even build one without doctrine choose?) There might be some good reason why nobody uses them...
- That big bad flag building that usually makes OKW bleed like boiled hog when they start to repair it. DO you know how to make it not shoot planes? It has bigger Priority to shoot tanks than airplanes same as bofors...
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Random rant:
Everyone is talking about that OWK should be small "elite" faction that could just be pushed away of the board with combinedarms push if it would not be for some "OP/Elite" units. --> when they have those "elite" units its just "omg omg nerf nerf" and when they are taken away most of their OP/Elite units and given more fuel to compensate what can they do anymore? SPAM the only still viable units, they don't have anything related to Combined arms its just zergs and zergs some more. Reason i don't like USF and OKW is that i don't like to play the game building 1 or 2 units the whole game...

Nerfing a next thing from the okw makes it even badder zerg thing...

So you don't remember the Obers being nerfed in half. The KT and Panther being nerfed and the LeIG losing it's suppression? Well why not let the data have it's say then. Go to coh2chart.com and expand the date range as far as possible. You can clearly see what happened.

Most people agree balance is better now, relative to the earlier days, and especially compared to when the UKF was introduced.

Sturmpios were nerfed because they were so easily reinforced and OP. Obers were nerfed because of obers spam. KT and panther had a price increase because they were fielded in 15 minutes. LeIG wasn't nerfed. It NEVER HAD suppression in the first place. It was given it and it became OP and was reverted and reverted again. So was USF howitzer. Obviously you haven't played since then so you wouldn't know what they were originally.

You only talk about OKW being nerfed. How about Sov quad halftrack nerf. ML-20 nerf. B4 nerf. Katyusha nerf. IS-2 nerf. ISU 152 nerf. IS nerf and reverted. mortar nerf. 120 mm mortar nerf. m8 greyhound nerf, airborne nerf, rear echelon nerf, easy 8 price nerf. priest nerf

Right now in team games... Axis has the highest win rate and for good reason. FRP+shrek spam is currently a problem. panzerwerfer late game suppression squad wiping.

OKW was losing when riflemen got a buff. OKW was losing because they had to adapt to a new enemy, UKF.

All right, lets talk about the Schwerer. Other people have already pointed out why its a bit silly that it is free, but I am going to explain how it has such a huge impact in the game.

The Schwerer is a tech structure that also provides you with fairly reliable AA, fairly reliable light - medium AT, and amazing AI. It also costs no more to unlock than the T4 tech of other factions at 120 fuel.

First of all, it gives you access to a great combination of armor, which you would expect to see in an Ostheer T3.5 if such a thing existed. The best comparison would be the British final tier structure, which gives them access to medium armor, TDs, and a heavy medium for a small sidetech cost. OKW T4, of course, gives access to all units for no increased sidetech cost.

Second of all, it gives you an AMAZING area denial tool. The Schwerer gives you a fairly long range emplacement that can easily deal with all target types. This makes a Schwerer with a raketen nearby almost impossible to push without your entire army, and even then only after you have teched for armor or purchased multiple AT guns, which means that you have spent more resources to counter the Schwerer than your opponent as spent putting it up. Ad a forwar retreat point nearby, and you make a defensive position that literally cannot be pushed until you can get heavy indirect fire.

The fact that the Schwerer is so hard to push, allows the OKW player to concentrate on the other side of the map without worrying about harrassment. This means that his opponent cannot send harrassing units, and will be fighting a defensive battle until they can get a counter Schwerer force together.

For all these reasons, I believe that the Schwerer is definitely too powerful for the fact that it is free with tech, and needs to be changed.

I would propose a or two of the following:

-Add a side tech cost on OKW HQs which allows OKW to unlock the special benefits (should cost fuel).

-A flat increase in the tech cost of OKW HQs to compensate for their lack of side tech for upgrades (fuel)

-The Schwerer is now unable to shoot down aircraft and has less pen.

-The Schwerer has less vision, so that supporting infantry are required to make use of it's weapon.

+1 could not say it better

Here is funny fact.
I just used industry in 2v2.
First supply drop was ok.
During second one, schwerer killed the plane which crashed on my 2 ZiS guns

So I paid 100muni to wipe my 1 AT gun and lose 4 models from second while OKW player paid nothing to counter supply drop

Here is funny fact.
I just used industry in 2v2.
First supply drop was ok.
During second one, schwerer killed the plane which crashed on my 2 ZiS guns

So I paid 100muni to wipe my 1 AT gun and lose 4 models from second while OKW player paid nothing to counter supply drop

git gud.

sucks though.

The Schwerer is a risk/reward building is it not if you place it outside your base, its a crucial part of okw teching which contains some of their best units which will be lost if destroyed aswell as costing 120 fuel.

Some saying it should be removed or side teched because of fuel income to 100%, well all OKW vehicles received an increase in fuel because of it, it costs 200 fuel for a bloody panther now lol.

Some people saying OKW supposed to be small elite army? well yeah until obers, volks KT etc all got nerfed so no that point aint no longer valid.
And finally, if Schwerer is bad then surley the bofors is worse......costing considerably less fuel, wipes infantry so much more better aswell as being able to brace and fire long distance shots with its ability but na lets nerf Schwerer becuase german OP, allies won ww2 we musszz nerf all axis.

This game aims to balance at least 1v1's i assume and currently win rates of all 3 allied factions are higher than axis in 1v1. NOT saying allies are OP but no need to nerf a crucial play style of OKW.

Bofors:
has less than 1600 HP
has less range
takes popcap
locks out the AEC

As an aside, a 1920 HP forward retreat point is pretty damned impossible to remove before tanks as well.

Just add a side tech for the flak and it's good to go.

And nerf it's vision range so it needs a spotter ( which can be killed). Not sure what the values are but FRP doesn't seem to give you a huge vision range.

Free bofors with double HP and no popcap / manpower tax is unreasonable.

Look, why nerf something that isn't over performing? it has it rewards and risks and its a static target for crying out loud people

Look, why nerf something that isn't over performing? it has it rewards and risks and its a static target for crying out loud people

That argument won't work.

Nerf in form of side upgrade is coming.

I'd add a side upgrade, and a pop cost to normalise the OKW to other factions.