something has to be done with retreat points.

Yes, but remove it and you simply reverse the situation:

Ostheer can field 1 ht reinforcing in any territories + 2 bunkers heal/reinforcement
Sov has T3 ht reinforcing in any territories + merge if they want to keep a support weapon on field and retreat a cons.

OKW and USF would simply be pushed of the map too easily. Early game for OWK since they have their T3 to temporize around 10 minutes but USF would be pointless with only rifle and HMGlolriflenadeinyouface/HMGlolflamnadeinyourface.

wtf are you saying? OKW already has a T1 reinforce point. Just get rid of the hard retreat point.
USF also has a T0 soft reinforce point? What are you shitting?
I don't see USF being pushed off the map without FRP because it' doesn't come until T3 ANYWAYS.

OST can only get either a HT or bunker heal. SOV same thing. How the hell would removing FRPs change ANYTHING early game except for OKW? Let's get it straight... there's no FRP FOR ANYONE EXCEPT OKW early game.

You're not reversing ANYTHING! You want/need 2 ambulances to heal at base and on the field? Well guess what? OST has to build a healing bunker at base AND on the field if they want to heal in 2 different areas. Same thing for SOV.

What SITUATION are we reversing by removing FRPs? Rewarding players for forcing enemies to retreat? Players become less blobby because they don't want to have to hard retreat all squads when they scout? Enemies can't bounce back onto the field in 20 seconds? Players that continue to blob will continue to lose? Aren't these ALL good things? All factions do NOT need a halftrack to reinforce because they ALL already have something. This thread is about RETREAT points NOT reinforce points.

wtf are you saying? OKW already has a T1 reinforce point. Just get rid of the hard retreat point.
USF also has a T0 soft reinforce point? What are you shitting?
I don't see USF being pushed off the map without FRP because it' doesn't come until T3 ANYWAYS.

OST can only get either a HT or bunker heal. SOV same thing. How the hell would removing FRPs change ANYTHING early game except for OKW? Let's get it straight... there's no FRP FOR ANYONE EXCEPT OKW early game.

You're not reversing ANYTHING! You want/need 2 ambulances to heal at base and on the field? Well guess what? OST has to build a healing bunker at base AND on the field if they want to heal in 2 different areas. Same thing for SOV.

What SITUATION are we reversing by removing FRPs? Rewarding players for forcing enemies to retreat? Players become less blobby because they don't want to have to hard retreat all squads when they scout? Enemies can't bounce back onto the field in 20 seconds? Players that continue to blob will continue to lose? Aren't these ALL good things? All factions do NOT need a halftrack to reinforce because they ALL already have something. This thread is about RETREAT points NOT reinforce points.

USF doesn't have way to reliably hold a territory with HMG and ATguns.
-OKW because their HMG is doctrinal and has nothing to do with the HMG42
-USF because you have to chose between HMG and ATgun. Do you remember smoke and flank? Ostheer just need to riflenade your HMG.
Both faction has little tools to keep a territory from a push. many time it result in a retreat + come back and this is why they have FRP. Because if they don't push they simply lose the game. They do not have the M3 or the sniper Sov has able to quickly circle or snipe from far away + cons hourra/molotov in t1 and Maxim + Zis + mortar in T2.

I admit OKW is tricky actually since they overperform but USF major comes at the same time OStheer is clearly able to push you hard, and not having the major retreat point will be more than an issue in many maps.

Now, Soft Retreat is something anybody know how to do at a certain level but you cannot soft retreat vs 3 gren/mg42 or 2 shock squads closing the gap on you.
I'm not saying FRP must stay like it is but removing unilateraly the option will set OKW and USF on the backfoot.
I have proposed some ideas to reduce the effectiveness: Increase reinforcement time x2 on FRP or disable healing when reinforcing. Some other can be find as well.

I agree that FRPs should be removed and all factions should get halftracks for transportation. It would encourage active management and spearheading assaults, rather than the current state of blobbing and the nullification of suppression.

CoH2 4v4 community hitting a new low I see. You guys are right though, punishing forward retreat points with indirect, suppression and snipers is WAY TOO HARD.

Please remove all the forward retreat points. Its bullshit. There are halftracks for a reason, and command bunkers and FHQs and all that.

Hell friggin yes. Already dreaming of how it'd be like without FRPs. Less overextending with blobs.

Maybe (MAYBE) give Brits FRP only? Idk. Cuz it just fits their style a lot. And the Forward Assemblies aren't hard to counter.

L O Fk'n L dude. Thanks for the chuckle.

USF doesn't have way to reliably hold a territory with HMG and ATguns.
-OKW because their HMG is doctrinal and has nothing to do with the HMG42
-USF because you have to chose between HMG and ATgun. Do you remember smoke and flank? Ostheer just need to riflenade your HMG.
Both faction has little tools to keep a territory from a push. many time it result in a retreat + come back and this is why they have FRP. Because if they don't push they simply lose the game. They do not have the M3 or the sniper Sov has able to quickly circle or snipe from far away + cons hourra/molotov in t1 and Maxim + Zis + mortar in T2.

I admit OKW is tricky actually since they overperform but USF major comes at the same time OStheer is clearly able to push you hard, and not having the major retreat point will be more than an issue in many maps.

Now, Soft Retreat is something anybody know how to do at a certain level but you cannot soft retreat vs 3 gren/mg42 or 2 shock squads closing the gap on you.
I'm not saying FRP must stay like it is but removing unilateraly the option will set OKW and USF on the backfoot.
I have proposed some ideas to reduce the effectiveness: Increase reinforcement time x2 on FRP or disable healing when reinforcing. Some other can be find as well.

Uhhh, yes they do.

USF can build bunkers whatever they're called if you opt for no MGs. Stuart can hold against AI infantry. AA track can suppress and hold off light vehicles. M20 can flank and scout and cap.

If you're approaching a defended position... 1 unit scout, 1 unit flank? Instead of 2 units run straight into support weapons and snipers?

Okw can build sandbags. Sturms can flank. LeIG can indirect. Kubel can backcap, cap cutoff points/decap. I have no idea how you're playing these factions but the best players micro at the beginning.

If the enemy has 3 grens/mg42 on you, then you should have at LEAST 3 riflemen. If they're closing on you and you're defending, use COVER. MG42 has to set up before suppression, you have reduced damage and suppression behind cover. you can flank the MG42 with your rear echelon/rifle whatever. Suppression weapons ARE MADE TO FORCE YOU TO HARD RETREAT it rewards players with good placement. If you sit there waiting for an MG to suppress your mobile infantry... that's your fault...

2 shocktroopers... that's 2 CP and you should be on T1 technically. Regardless that's 680 MP? 2 MGs can handle 2 shocks. 3 MGs is a guarantee. layer them up and smoke can't even save them. 1 MG and 1 panzergren behind them will also do the job. Snipers to soften them up... there are SOO many counters.... FRP are not necessary. Do you see me? What is my USF rank? and i play team games in BIG BIG BIG 4s maps. I'm saying they aren't necessary. What's your counter?

CoH2 4v4 community hitting a new low I see. You guys are right though, punishing forward retreat points with indirect, suppression and snipers is WAY TOO HARD.





L O Fk'n L dude. Thanks for the chuckle.

That's why I said maybe. Brits can't even blob in the first place without taking a lot of manpower drain especially considering the IS need cover bonuses to be good.

Brits are different than the other factions and they are like the vCoH ones. Settings up camp in parts of the map. Again, maybe. Its subject to debate, but I'd be fine with either FRP removed or kept

On the one hand, I do hate FRPs.

On the other hand, sending an OKW blob packing then firing the Katy at the med truck to get 24 kills is oh so satisfying.

One thing's for sure, don't give it to everyone.

Forward Retreat are fundamental elements of the WFA+UKF factions. You can't just give it to other factions or remove them entirely, and expect that to just to be the solution.

WFA and UKF would have to have halftracks to justify the change. Both UKF and USF already have doctrinal halftracks, which means you'd have to make major revisions to faction design. Not to mention, make all of these factions lose unique flavour.

Then there's map design. Huge maps favour forward retreat heavily whereas small maps make them irrelevant.

Forward Retreat are fundamental elements of the WFA+UKF factions. You can't just give it to other factions or remove them entirely, and expect that to just to be the solution.

WFA and UKF would have to have halftracks to justify the change. Both UKF and USF already have doctrinal halftracks, which means you'd have to make major revisions to faction design. Not to mention, make all of these factions lose unique flavour.

Then there's map design. Huge maps favour forward retreat heavily whereas small maps make them irrelevant.

and why would you need to give them HTs?

OKW already have resupply + medic truck

USF already have ambulance

UKF have resupply tent + weapon racks.

That's why I said maybe. Brits can't even blob in the first place without taking a lot of manpower drain especially considering the IS need cover bonuses to be

Man have you seen captainsprice. That degenerate blobs the hell out of British

and why would you need to give them HTs?

OKW already have resupply + medic truck

USF already have ambulance

UKF have resupply tent + weapon racks.

Sorry I meant to say OKW and UKF.

I don't know what you mean by "resupply". Medic Truck may retain reinforcing, but forward retreat is a fundamental element to OKW design. If anything, this game needs forward retreat for all factions, especially for the larger maps.

Man have you seen captainsprice. That degenerate blobs the hell out of British

He blobs ostwinds and AT guns, I wouldn't call him an example of anything.

He blobs ostwinds and AT guns, I wouldn't call him an example of anything.

I seen him and I've played against him, he will blobb 8 engineers. Or 6 REs with LMGs. Don't get me wrong he is a good player who has skill, but you'll catch a stream here n there. And he will blobb and it proves that blobbing pays off more then it should. And yes he is able to effectively use PIAT blobbs as well. Attacking ground and such.

I seen him and I've played against him, he will blobb 8 engineers. Or 6 REs with LMGs. Don't get me wrong he is a good player who has skill, but you'll catch a stream here n there. And he will blobb and it proves that blobbing pays off more then it should. And yes he is able to effectively use PIAT blobbs as well. Attacking ground and such.

Why do you only play axis?

Why do you only play axis?

I have 12-14 long days.
I have friends
I have a pretty good life
I have bills
Im running out of pages on my passport
I bought the game with my hard earned money.
I don't like the Allied play style, never have since coh1.
This all being said, I have a pretty normal and exciting life. My life isn't centered on making people happy by playing both factions, or trying to prove any points, this game isn't the highlight of my day. But it is the only game I play..

I like the axis playstyle, I personally am fascinated with the German doctrines and strategies used in ww2.

Once someone on these fourms decide to pay my bills. Then maybe they have a valid reason to make me not play the faction that I come home and enjoy to play, that I use to blow off stress and relax when I get home..

UP or OP I'll always play the faction I enjoy to play.

If you look through my recent post. I like to think Im not biased on the fourms, I don't ever use the word allied fanboy, I don't ever have insane balance suggestions that clearly have no weight to them. In fact I rarely use OP. People see my player card before my words, and are quick to use axis fanboy. Understandable to an extent. I like to think I'm good. Good enough for a suggestion here n there...