Balance Preview Patchnotes

schreck upgrade also 120 munition pls. But I want for that price two of them.

seriously some people are really overreacting, like girlys in a outlet mall.

OKW Panther is too good for its current place. It should be in Schwer but require an unlock within the building to build.

Oh yeah when the panther hits the field, every allied tank will instant detonate

I really don't think insulting people is the best way to go about making an argument, especially when you imply that your opponents are immature.

In any case, the OKW panther, which is an upgrade from the regular panther, now arrives early than the Wehr panther,for the same price per unit, and shortly after medium tanks arrive. How do you propose a single Sherman take on such a powerful opponent, which has been gated or very limited before? In team games panther spam will come back with a venegance and no Allied faction has the tools to deal with it seriously.

Yes mines can work but only to some player skill cell becuase ofter that he will simply know there is mine , he will sweep them and he wont drive trought obvious mineplaces.
Yes mines can usually work but i dont think its fine to count on them because sometimes it work sometimes not.


Also by the time i get luchs enemy will have mines too and he will also tech for At guns and At nades and maybe even posibly guard to button your luchs (he will get map with clowcars if he does not screw it up) so you you will get shock value that is good but also soonly can come su 76 or t70 and then it will be equal fights.

Im not saying its bad to punish him for his tier 1 opening and it should be that way i just want to tell you that its not good when you need to rely only on one build to counter another. Thats why i want to give them fuel back and increase price of luchs mechanized medic and flak hq by a bit of fuel so you can have diverse build orders at least (eg will i hold clowcars with shreck and medics and i try p4 rush or will i rely on early mines and rush p2 luchs , becuase right now you have only one option.)

Agains maxims its possiblein some maps but surely not on all of them (semosky , kholodny - he get church and munny house and then you are in bad shape , arnhem , kharkov , faymoville )

Also every good player will move his maxims , and they are really potent even on open if you can cover them well.

So i think there are possible strat to fight it off but it would be much better if we diverse game and you can choose between luchs or medics into p4.

Yes i agree with you I just want to tell it will be too stale if we dont change teching somehow.

I am also concerned about tech and boring stale strats, but the speed at which Luchs arrive completely negates clown car play. You would have to be very ballsy to try to beat OKW with clowncars, because if you fail you will automatically lose the game at minute 8.

For maxim spam, I think the OKW still field some mighty powerful units. I have no fear that they will be able to control maxims. In fact now that they have a commander that gives flames you can pick that up if you want. Or you can invest in ISG's when you build the structure and completely shut down maxim spammers. If he chooses to bunker down in buildings you just need to wait until flame nades to make a push and maneuver elsewhere until such time. In most games you will have this no later than minute 5, and regardless if he bunkers down he cannot cap points giving you the initiative again. Maxim spam will be annoying until you get the tools after that its just mop up duty.

I am also concerned about tech and boring stale strats, but the speed at which Luchs arrive completely negates clown car play. You would have to be very ballsy to try to beat OKW with clowncars, because if you fail you will automatically lose the game at minute 8.

For maxim spam, I think the OKW still field some mighty powerful units. I have no fear that they will be able to control maxims. In fact now that they have a commander that gives flames you can pick that up if you want. Or you can invest in ISG's when you build the structure and completely shut down maxim spammers. If he chooses to bunker down in buildings you just need to wait until flame nades to make a push and maneuver elsewhere until such time. In most games you will have this no later than minute 5, and regardless if he bunkers down he cannot cap points giving you the initiative again. Maxim spam will be annoying until you get the tools after that its just mop up duty.

You have once again true .

I think it is just me that dont like the way that is coh2 now played.
Around shock units . first 5 minutes you need to survive then your enemy need to survive then you need to survive ....

I want to have this game more about strategical decision to counter that unit and then tactical play to shut that unit down (puma vs suchka) not this here your priority is to completely negate that unit (maxim great , after luchs and greandes weak , clow cars great after luch weak , m20 super on steroids , after luchs your screwed. Only funny combination i like is okw mechanized vs usa captain right now. Also okw can just roflstomp brits with double luchs and grenade spam to deny cover to IS - without cover the loose to volks)

I was going to make a big long post about the okw changes but i'll just leave it at this. They play exactly like an allied faction now. Use the Kubel(clearly OP in this patch) to gain very strong map control, snowball that into a light vehicle shock unit, and then play into medium armor. The factions are getting more and more homogenized with every patch.

In any case, the OKW panther, which is an upgrade from the regular panther, now arrives early than the Wehr panther,for the same price per unit, and shortly after medium tanks arrive. How do you propose a single Sherman take on such a powerful opponent, which has been gated or very l

he invested into heavy anti tank (panther) you invested in heavy Ai (he shells of sherman). park a pak behind your sherman and his heavy fuel investment is negated while you continue to wipe 4 model squads left and right with your sherman.

really whats the deal with panthers? they got so little AT and AI dps, small range ( cant outrange his oppopenents)

Can we remove the Speed debuff for Heavy Engineers now that it has a cost? It shouldnt have any penalties, for 70 munitions.

he invested into heavy anti tank (panther) you invested in heavy Ai (he shells of sherman). park a pak behind your sherman and his heavy fuel investment is negated while you continue to wipe 4 model squads left and right with your sherman.

really whats the deal with panthers? they got so little AT and AI dps, small range ( cant outrange his oppopenents)

The Panther, is highly survivable and its DPS against infantry is hardly something to disconsider (basically lmg gren). Its high armor negates a single AT gun, forcing tech for another AT unit, and all this while denying Allied armor the field. Its early presence guarantees that it will get vet sooner and more of it before larger number of tanks appear. Assuming he is OKW, I am not shooting at 4 man squads, but larger 5 man AT squads. These require a Sherman to control which will face so much AT as soon as it is built it will fail to make any impression. Building TD's is no better since it allows blobs of volks total map dominance.

In larger game modes the Panther is already a potent threat, with these changes pushing the timer up makes it straight out ridiculous.

The Panther, is highly survivable and its DPS against infantry is hardly something to disconsider (basically lmg gren). Its high armor negates a single AT gun, forcing tech for another AT unit, and all this while denying Allied armor the field. Its early presence guarantees that it will get vet sooner and more of it before larger number of tanks appear. Assuming he is OKW, I am not shooting at 4 man squads, but larger 5 man AT squads. These require a Sherman to control which will face so much AT as soon as it is built it will fail to make any impression. Building TD's is no better since it allows blobs of volks total map dominance.

In larger game modes the Panther is already a potent threat, with these changes pushing the timer up makes it straight out ridiculous.

Also add p4 that will right now comes at almost same time as panther would come before because of no fuel penalty and also better map control thx munny penalty and volks + sturm buff and also kubelthecapper

The Panther, is highly survivable and its DPS against infantry is hardly something to disconsider (basically lmg gren). Its high armor negates a single AT gun, forcing tech for another AT unit, and all this while denying Allied armor the field. Its early presence guarantees that it will get vet sooner and more of it before larger number of tanks appear. Assuming he is OKW, I am not shooting at 4 man squads, but larger 5 man AT squads. These require a Sherman to control which will face so much AT as soon as it is built it will fail to make any impression. Building TD's is no better since it allows blobs of volks total map dominance.

In larger game modes the Panther is already a potent threat, with these changes pushing the timer up makes it straight out ridiculous.

to be honest i find the panther to be pretty mediocre and rather focus on puma's jp's and p4's.

the panther has decent survivability but no dps what so ever and its high penetration is wasted on medium tanks. so p4's will generally do better.

Maybe, but keep in mind that single high DPS weapons provide huge bonuses to squads by preventing DPS drop off as members of the squad die, and by causing all DPS to be trained at a single model. Both of these effects need also be considered in the cost, DPS alone is not enough.

Obers are already out of the box elite infantry available to OKW (normally call-in only), with some of the best received accuracy, and the best vet of any elite infantry in the game. Asking that they require a large investment in their MG's requires they be taken care of well and used appropriately.

I am open to changes in cost not equal to 120 munitions (this was more of a guide), but I think it fair based on their performance.

Obers might be non-doctrinal but they also come very late. They need that LMG to have any meaningful impact when they come out so I don't think their LMG needs to be much more expensive at all considering their already high price + pop cap.


75 ammo would be fine.

P.S.: All LMGs focus one model, or am I mistaken?

It wasn't weird before (and still) that they can gain more experience than battle hardened Eastern veterans? If volks are going to retain this versatility the cost is going to need to be at least 250.

That's a completely different thing. The 5-vet system is not something that describes Volks only, rather the whole faction. As such, it is not sth that characterizes them specifically.

For good manners, Grens should also cost 250! Because Volks cheaper than Grens is irritating for aforementioned reasons...

Obers might be non-doctrinal but they also come very late. They need that LMG to have any meaningful impact when they come out so I don't think their LMG needs to be much more expensive at all considering their already high price + pop cap.


75 ammo would be fine.

P.S.: All LMGs focus one model, or am I mistaken?

Sorry about the confusion. My point with LMG's is that in other factions LMG's are multiple per squad (excluding grens which have 1 again). In these squads the player cannot control which unit is targeted so the DPS can hit more than 1 model, slowing down model drops.

Changes made.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/67-coh-2-changelog?p=237094#post237094

OKW will have 0 fuel to start.

Schreck package back to 90 muni.

Volks now 250 manpower.

Sturm flammers now 0CP.

Suppression removed from ISG/Pack Howie.

Changes made.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/67-coh-2-changelog?p=237094#post237094

OKW will have 0 fuel to start.

Schreck package back to 90 muni.

Volks now 250 manpower.

Sturm flammers now 0CP.

Suppression removed from ISG/Pack Howie.

if suppression is gone, compensation is needed.

I'm really concern about OKW having

1- best starting close combat unit (Sturms) with a price decreased
2- best stock elite infantry (Obers) cheapest ammo cost/effective LMG
3- best pop out from building elite infantry (falls) full dps right from the bat
4- best pop out from building sniper squad (Jaegers) full dps right from the bat
5- best long range survivability/dps squad (pfuss) upgrade requiring cheap munition cost
and now
-6 mainline base infantry squad IA dps buffed and still having shreck upgrade at disposal for the same price
-7 Let's do not forget the only vehicle which is cheap and fuel free having good AI dps, fast capping power and good front and back armor.

Additionally, T1 flak-HT, T2 Luch that not going to be restricted anymore. And still Raken in T0.

If we compare it with USF, it is like putting ATgun TO with no restriction and T1 freely unlocking Zooks, grenades and ambulance.

Volks supported by kubel/sturm are now going to go toes to toes with rifles. Good good.

So my question is what are the OKW drawbacks? Where are the crucial choices you need to take in order to build your strategy if anything is available whenever you go T0/T1 or T0/T2?
Whenever you go T0/T1 or T0/T2 you have ATgun and good AI vehicles. The only decision you make are:

Do I want shreck or puma to support my Raken
Do I want ISG or Walking Stuka to arty
Do I prefer Flak-HT or Luch for IA support
Do I prefer heal station or repair station (for free)

Nothing really about decision making that impact your gameplay like
Sov going T1 or T2 (aggressive no AT or defensive relying only on cons + callin) + what upgrade to unlock and in which order
Ostheer skipping T1 or T2 (or not but this is the army flavor)
USF going T1 or T2 (AI or AT) + what upgrade to unlock and in which order

if suppression is gone, compensation is needed.

Sweet fancy Moses no... the Pak howi, from my experience, still consistantly kills 1-4 models per shot. It's role is to act like a sniper, not anti-blob. And I think it's doing it's just fine. Removing suppression just refines its already well-performed role. It doesn't need the role to be accented anymore.

THANK GOD JESUS ALMIGHTY suppression is gone!

I think it would be better if OKW starts with a kubel, and let it do less damage...

I agree with the comments here that the UKF nerfs seem a bit harsh.
Apart from the IS vet penalty they should be left pretty much as they are.
In fact how about doing the following:
- Standard IS remains as they currently are (but with the listed vet penalty)
- HAMMER upgrade slightly increases effectiveness out of cover (and reduces effectiveness in cover).
- IS gains an AT grenade as a standard unit upgrade option (instead of coordinated fire)
(Tank Hunters still have AT grenade as a bonus upgrade)

- Coordinated Fire is now only on the Sniper and the Commando Officer.

Heavy Engineers upgrade costs 50 munitions and has the following effects:
- Movement reduced by 25% (instead of 50%)
- Repair speed increased by 50% (instead of 100%)
- Armour bonus and Vickers LMG granted as currently

AEC armour increase to make it better against luchs (it seems unfair to have a great anti-infantry vehicle that is also better than a vehicle that is clearly designed as more of an anti-vehicle platform).

Changes made.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/67-coh-2-changelog?p=237094#post237094

OKW will have 0 fuel to start.

Schreck package back to 90 muni.

Volks now 250 manpower.

Sturm flammers now 0CP.

Suppression removed from ISG/Pack Howie.

Oh god this patch is going to be a clusterfuck.
Now USF will have even more trouble dealing with the new OKW blobs. They still have the no auto-facing too and their RoF was nerfed pretty bad before. Without the suppression they'll probably get easily overrun.

Meanwhile the ISG will still just be hanging back behind the flak HQ picking away at the allies with no worry of retaliation with it's super range.

I'm very very concerned with the OKW getting redone, and all their buffs...plus all of the nerfs and lack of buffs for British Forces, plus easier access to flames and nuclear grenades...

That British Players will be forced to choose Vanguard even more; Royal Engineers commander has become unviable thanks to emplacements, even Mortar emplacements, having no defensive capabilities whatsoever.

Relic needs to re-examine their extensive British nerfs and keep them also in line with the very fast teching of the new OKW.