Balance Preview Patchnotes

OKW base structures were provided with bonuses to allow them to hold ground because they could not field as many tanks as other factions. With these new changes the bonuses acquired by building these structures should be removed.

For instance, now with full fuel OKW can place a Schwer on the field, early and far forward giving it huge map control potential with limited risk which before was more of a handicap because they would not receive a tank from the building for another 5 minutes or more.

The ability of OKW to field more tanks also means that units like Obers, which are designed to soft counter their hard infantry counters, need to be looked at very closely. Almost certainly their LMG34 needs to go up to 120 munitions.

Call in infantry probably should also require an upgrade, as the reason they did not have it before was to compensate for limited munitions.

OKW Panther is too good for its current place. It should be in Schwer but require an unlock within the building to build.

Shrek blobs are gonna be the be all end all in team games. Volks, if they are to remain this way, may need to lose shreks, and have an upgrade that gives them fausts. They could then gain an MP40 upgrade or something else to help improve their dps. As it stands Volks already vet faster in team games because shreks let them hit vehicles quickly and pick up vet. While allied units are shooting at low cost volks squads for limited vet options.

Vet 5 seems completely ridiculous now, outright better form of the vet system all other armies depend on.

Luchs is too good. Its ability to chase down and wipe squads is much higher than the stuart or the T70. If it is to remain in place it needs to come with low health. As it stands if you start to lose and retreat, while this thing appears it will instantly be game over. The vet on the Luchs is also outright better than other light vehicles

JPIV still needs to be addressed.

PF rifle nade bug still not addressed, needs to have no maximum distance.

JT, used correctly, is still unbeatable in team games, and will be more so now with tons of munitions to build mines and shreks. Unit should be closely examined. The reason it existed before was to compensate for a faction that would have 0 tanks on the field when it arrived. Now it can support multiple tanks, which makes its synergy too high.

OKW sturm pios with flames are going to be too good. The unit was as good as it was to compensate for how few you would have. Now with munitions and more MP because you can afford vehicles (which don't have to reinforce) these units will be way too good. Build into that their vet will help the vehicles repair faster and things are going to get out of control.

These changes to OKW have huge knock on effects that are not considered in the current patch notes. OKW cannot get straight buffs across the board (as they have here, excusing small changes to vet 4 and 5). OKW's ability to control team games will increase greatly at the expense of all other factions.

Edit: OKW abilities should have their prices raised to bring them in line with other factions. For instance ability to shoot through walls for JT needs a price increase, Combat Blitz needs a price increase, etc.

SNIP

Well said, team games are now back in favor of OKW and Axis. I was expecting a complete overhaul of OKW as in a new faction design. I was not expecting OKW to carry it's truck tech advantages along with resource buffs.

Cheaper teching price you know

Don't you ?

Teching costs are teching costs, unit costs are unit costs. One is for timing, one is for performance.

People that want to increase prices for things like the MG34 because OKW now got normal ressource income have to consider that nades or tanks (like the Panther) didn't cost less because of the fuel penalty. That also means: higher income does not justify higher prices (only higher teching costs).

#logic

Teching costs are teching costs, unit costs are unit costs. One is for timing, one is for performance.

People that want to increase prices for things like the MG34 because OKW now got normal ressource income have to consider that nades or tanks (like the Panther) didn't cost less because of the fuel penalty. That also means: higher income does not justify higher prices (only higher teching costs).

#logic

I don't think we would want higher prices for higher income either. People would like to see fair prices since the munition/fuel resources are stabilized for OKW. Obers 60 munition LMG for example is a bit too cheap for it's performance and effect on the squad all together.

I don't think we would want higher prices for higher income either. People would like to see fair prices since the munition/fuel resources are stabilized for OKW. Obers 60 munition LMG for example is a bit too cheap for it's performance and effect on the squad all together.

All LMGs cost 60ammo (except DP-28s because they are considerably weaker). MG34s costed 60 with penalty just like OKW nades costed 30 like all other basic nades.

Let's assume it was justified to increase its price, 120 ammo would be too much. It simply doesn't deal twice as much DPS as other LMGs. 75 ammo would be OK - or 80 but not more.

All LMGs cost 60ammo (except DP-28s because they are considerably weaker). MG34s costed 60 with penalty just like OKW nades costed 30 like all other basic nades.

Let's assume it was justified to increase its price, 120 ammo would be too much. It simply doesn't deal twice as much DPS as other LMGs. 75 ammo would be OK - or 80 but not more.

Maybe, but keep in mind that single high DPS weapons provide huge bonuses to squads by preventing DPS drop off as members of the squad die, and by causing all DPS to be trained at a single model. Both of these effects need also be considered in the cost, DPS alone is not enough.

Obers are already out of the box elite infantry available to OKW (normally call-in only), with some of the best received accuracy, and the best vet of any elite infantry in the game. Asking that they require a large investment in their MG's requires they be taken care of well and used appropriately.

I am open to changes in cost not equal to 120 munitions (this was more of a guide), but I think it fair based on their performance.

Revert 40 fuel and increase cost of medics by 10 fuel , cost of mechanized by 20 (because of allmighty feared luchs spam) and cost of flak hq by 20 fuel.

Also im the only one that notice that flaktrack now have 55 fuel cost while being worse tham luchs by a lot , cost only 10 fuel less and come at almost same time ?


And also one think i noticed is a bit abusive A LOT CHEESE and gambreaking. Grandkubelkónig with breathrought ability active (decap faster). You can literally decap whole map in 60 seconds with 25 munny and 1 kubelwagon

Revert 40 fuel and increase cost of medics by 10 fuel , cost of mechanized by 20 (because of allmighty feared luchs spam) and cost of flak hq by 20 fuel.

I'm dying to know how giving OKW even faster possibility to tech would dealy the luchs according to you.

Also im the only one that notice that flaktrack now have 55 fuel cost while being worse tham luchs by a lot , cost only 10 fuel less and come at almost same time ?

Luchs isn't suppression/murder platform with one of the best aa capabilities in game.

I'm dying to know how giving OKW even faster possibility to tech would dealy the luchs according to you.



Luchs isn't suppression/murder platform with one of the best aa capabilities in game.

Oh katitof katitof.

One this is luchs.

Second thinks is that OKW can get shrecks or incendiary nades until they get at least 45 fuel and wait until medics are build.

This leaves them very vunurable to fast m20 , clowcar because right now your option how to cunter is is raketen and if it get flanked , well , that a shame you loose a lot of map.


Also how you can flush maxims out of buildings without incendiary grenades ?

I´m not saying luch was good , im saying that many players only fear luchs and overlook many other thinks that is do right now.


I think if we give them 40 fuel then luchs will cost 70 fuel and mechanized will cost 60 fuel everything will be fine because it wont arrive before USA captain or before russian at gun + nades.




Right now i tink its too easy ti kick OKW ass by fast m20 or clowcar or maximspam because of no counters.

Elite Troops
Removing this ability from the commander tree as it interferes with the general pacing of unit veterancy•Ability replaced with Stormtroopers

SO THEY DIDNT FORGET STORMTROOPS!

Since the heavy sappers have to pay for LMG can they walk like normal units now?

Do they still have 2.0 armor with this upgrade ? ( its an honest question )

Volks costing more than Grens is very weird and stupid for reasons...!

One this is luchs.

Second thinks is that OKW can get shrecks or incendiary nades until they get at least 45 fuel and wait until medics are build.

This leaves them very vunurable to fast m20 , clowcar because right now your option how to cunter is is raketen and if it get flanked , well , that a shame you loose a lot of map.


Also how you can flush maxims out of buildings without incendiary grenades ?

This is a luchs, so...? What is your first point again, it's not really clear.

OKW's vulnerability to one strat, clowncars, is going to be somewhat real, but in trade you receive a tank invulnerable to scout cars, and they cannot chase you with clowncars into your base. Once the volks have retreated the fast luchs will punish their slower tech immediately, and they will lose because you can chase them into their base. At best the luchs needs to arrive later, or it needs nerfs to bring it in line with other lite tanks. You also ignore that Sturms can still build mines now quite easily and force nice trades with these lite vehicles while you tech.

You can ignore maxims in buildings for two reasons. You can decap and flank with kubels, and you can build more volks squads than maxims so you can walk around capping points or getting in your own buildings and hanging on.

Volks costing more than Grens is very weird and stupid for reasons...!

It wasn't weird before (and still) that they can gain more experience than battle hardened Eastern veterans? If volks are going to retain this versatility the cost is going to need to be at least 250.

Hi just minor note to the remake of Elite troops commander.

Is nice that you put Stormtroopers in but they cant use stun nades and G43s.

So you will get by my opinion expensive mix of Grens/Pgrens which can not use half of commanders abilities.

schreck upgrade also 120 munition pls. But I want for that price two of them.

seriously some people are really overreacting, like girlys in a outlet mall.

OKW Panther is too good for its current place. It should be in Schwer but require an unlock within the building to build.

Oh yeah when the panther hits the field, every allied tank will instant detonate

OKW's vulnerability to one strat, clowncars, is going to be somewhat real, but in trade you receive a tank invulnerable to scout cars, and they cannot chase you with clowncars into your base. Once the volks have retreated the fast luchs will punish their slower tech immediately, and they will lose because you can chase them into their base. At best the luchs needs to arrive later, or it needs nerfs to bring it in line with other lite tanks. You also ignore that Sturms can still build mines now quite easily and force nice trades with these lite vehicles while you tech.

You can ignore maxims in buildings for two reasons. You can decap and flank with kubels, and you can build more volks squads than maxims so you can walk around capping points or getting in your own buildings and hanging on.

Yes mines can work but only to some player skill cell becuase ofter that he will simply know there is mine , he will sweep them and he wont drive trought obvious mineplaces.
Yes mines can usually work but i dont think its fine to count on them because sometimes it work sometimes not.


Also by the time i get luchs enemy will have mines too and he will also tech for At guns and At nades and maybe even posibly guard to button your luchs (he will get map with clowcars if he does not screw it up) so you you will get shock value that is good but also soonly can come su 76 or t70 and then it will be equal fights.

Im not saying its bad to punish him for his tier 1 opening and it should be that way i just want to tell you that its not good when you need to rely only on one build to counter another. Thats why i want to give them fuel back and increase price of luchs mechanized medic and flak hq by a bit of fuel so you can have diverse build orders at least (eg will i hold clowcars with shreck and medics and i try p4 rush or will i rely on early mines and rush p2 luchs , becuase right now you have only one option.)

Agains maxims its possiblein some maps but surely not on all of them (semosky , kholodny - he get church and munny house and then you are in bad shape , arnhem , kharkov , faymoville )

Also every good player will move his maxims , and they are really potent even on open if you can cover them well.

So i think there are possible strat to fight it off but it would be much better if we diverse game and you can choose between luchs or medics into p4.

Yes i agree with you I just want to tell it will be too stale if we dont change teching somehow.

Stormtroopers just like the encirclement doc?

..

They deal OK dmg but are so fragile IMO.