Balance Preview Patchnotes

If you manage to win against a decent ~ human ~ opponent with this build, pls post a replay

Got a game open right now if anyone wants to play.

Dont understand why you people like this patch, they finally are attempting to redesign OKW and they still refuse to remove the shrek from volks...

Not to mention they removed volks flamenade so now OKW will have to rely on a commander to clear houses..... gg wp relic

Its not removed, they have now 2 type of nades.

And btw plz replace OKW Ostwind with Wirbelwind.

BTW, I foresee volks cost increase in the near future.

They'll outperform grens easily now and shreck spam might become horrible.

On the bright side, big return on pfussiliers imminent.

Okay after playing here's my overview:

1. Teching is way too quick! Both light armor and medium armor are arriving faster then opponents can realistically deal with them. 5 min kubels and flak halftracks are rediculous.

2. Kubel needs a Fuel cost. We already went through this in alpha relic, don't make the same mistake again. We don't need to see the 5+ kubel rushes again.

3. Either normal grenades or flame grenades. USF gets by with just normal grenades just fine and they atleast have to upgrade to it. This is a ridiculous amount of utility that pretty much makes any use of cover and garrisons useless against OKW. Not to mention the extra muni now lets them throw more then ever. Atleast move the flame nades to sturmpios.

4. Increase schrek cost. They can already afford them better with the resource change. Between this, the buff, and the new grenades there is going to be sooo much volk spam.

5. Slow down their armor. OKW armor is straight up better then what the other factions get. There is no way allies can deal with it coming out as early and as frequent as the other factions medium armor does. Their armors costs probably need to be inflated a bit so they aren't as easy to accumulate and replace. Or at very least they need to be delayed so that allies can get a head start on armor preduction.

6. Rethink salvage. It basically gives them extra resources vs opponents for no cost. Before it helped mitigate a weakness. Now it is just an unnecessary resource advantage.

Fast luchs is op as fuck trust me...

I did some more testing, and I can't stress enough how much the UKF sniper sucks now.

It's bad enough that the only way to counter the Ost sniper early game is with a sniper of your own, since the UKF has no flanking units, and their only early light vehicle (Universal Carrier) is a piece of shit that can barely touch a sniper, and even it it does it will get chewed up by a faust before it can finish the job.

So you have the UKF sniper, which is already very vulnerable to the Ost sniper, since it's better in every way at what it does, especially now. If you manage to fuck up a counter-snipe war with a UKF sniper as an Ost player, you deserve to have to be creative to take out his sniper. But now, if you lose your sniper, you can quickly just get a 222 and drive right up to him. The increased cost of the 6 pounder (which is still a very bad change if mainline infantry are going to remain without an AT snare) gives you an even larger window, and even if one is out it still needs 2 shots to be rid of it, and the infantry section rifles won't even scratch it, and now that the sniper himself can't even defend himself from this, he's as good as dead as soon as soon as any early game light vehicle roles out. It just makes things way too easy and forgiving for axis players, while the UKF player will have to go through hell to take out a sniper on the flip side.

So I'd suggest either reverting the UKF sniper changes or giving Infantry Section's AT grenades so they don't have to rely on the now more expensive and slow 6pder to protect their sniper.

I also did some more testing with the Infantry Sections vs the Volks. I can reliably say that Volks will win at least 65% of engagements, provided all ground is equal for both units (even with the cover buff for IS). This should not happen, and the reason should be clear as day to see - the Volks are cheaper and have way more versatility, and the Infantry Section's only saving grace throughout the game was their ability to hold their ground against most axis infantry.

I did some thinking about the standard Churchill, and I think the price increase would be fine if it went back up to 1600hp - it's already had it's armour nerfed so it shouldn't be that much of a threat anymore. If not though, then the cost increase was way over the top, I'd say 160 FU if anything.

Also, have fun fighting Ostruppen spam with these new Tommies.

This patch has a lot of potential OKW just need timing changes etc. Give brad feedback on forums.

I look forward to face rolling Allies with 3x PzIV Armour bulletin.

Edit: Even less reason to build a Churchill now.

snip

Allie fanboy on suicide watch. Your suggestions would put OKW where they are now in a weak spot.

Starting fuel needs to reduced 40->15 and you delay a Luchs by 2 minutes and then it comes at the same time as stuart, T70 or AEC. Problem solved.
I just played against a good opponent (miragefla) and he had no problem dealing with the Luchs.

I dont really like it, one patch removes all the interesting and unique abilities from whole game... What is the next step? Mirrors in automatch?

Allie fanboy on suicide watch. Your suggestions would put OKW where they are now in a weak spot.

Starting fuel needs to reduced 40->15 and you delay a Luchs by 2 minutes and then it comes at the same time as stuart, T70 or AEC. Problem solved.
I just played against a good opponent (miragefla) and he had no problem dealing with the Luchs.

LOL are you kidding me. Even with what I said they would still be stronger in every single way then they are right now. With the current changes they are batshit OP. And you have to be pretty biased not to see it.

LOL are you kidding me. Even with what I said they would still be stronger in every single way then they are right now. With the current changes they are batshit OP. And you have to be pretty biased not to see it.

They might be OP with the changes, you're right. But we haven't had a chance to see it yet.



Are you worried about an OP issue because you want the game to be balanced for all factions and fun for everyone? Or because the faction you play against may now be OP?


We've just gone through weeks of flamer rifle blobs and Churchills. #GiveAxisAChance

Regarding fast Luchs: Just make T1 a requirement for T2 and be done with it.

Reducing starting fuel would delay the FlaK HT quite a bit and that's not necessary.

They might be OP with the changes, you're right. But we haven't had a chance to see it yet.

The mod is out right now. I played 3 games already.

Did some testing with the preview mod.

I managed to get a luchs in 4 minutes and 30 seconds, I could have gotten it faster if I didn't upgrade thorough salvage.

My methodology:

2 kubelwagon start.

Cap with kubels and sturmpio until face resistance (5 strat poitns + fuel point usually)

Call in truck after second kubel

Immediately upgrade mechanized command with truck when it gets on map

Build volksgrenadier.

Build a mine or two in base, place kubels ontop of mine.

Grenade with volks.

Salvage both kubels.

Build luchs.

I also had a panzer iv by around 11 minutes, and if I actually wanted to I could cut that down to less than 10 minutes using the luchs to cap more territory.


EDIT:

Did a more efficient run. Managed to have the Luchs on the field a 4 minutes and 24 seconds.

Here's the replay for those of you with the patch preview downloaded.

To put this in perspective guys, this is about as fast as you can get a flame engineer in a scout car as Soviets.

•  
  

  0

  VS

  Dullahan

  CPU - Expert

  Fast Luchs- December Patch Preview

  by: Dullahan map: Kholodny Ferma

  1

  -

And while you're spending time, mapower and munitions smashing kubels, your opponent is taking the map. If he's Soviet, he can get two AT guns for the same manpower cost as Kubels + Luchs.


It may be the case that Luchs needs delaying but this is not an objective test.

Regarding fast Luchs: Just make T1 a requirement for T2 and be done with it.

Reducing starting fuel would delay the FlaK HT quite a bit and that's not necessary.

Well, you start with 40F. Pay 15F for sWs + 30Med HQ + 55. This means 100F - 40 starting = you need to gather 60F to 251/17. So 60fuel to get Med HQ and 251/17.

As USF you need 60F just for AA HT. Add Lieutent cost nad... Huh

Lowering starting fuel to 0 without lineaer
or to 30 with lineaer teching.

Okay after playing here's my overview:


2. Kubel needs a Fuel cost. We already went through this in alpha relic, don't make the same mistake again. We don't need to see the 5+ kubel rushes again.

and why? No supression buddy. good deal imo

youll never see 5+ kubel rushes because kubels dont have suppression anymore. they wont be able to stop infantry pushes alone. theyre more of a support unit now, and in the midgame u can use them to harass with their capping ability.

It's like everyone before was afraid of 5 Minute T-70, so just be quite and see. Don't come up with these poor replays against comp, pls