King Tiger

They'd probably be fine if grenade was removed. The ability to counter their counter is just poor design. Also the croc is still ridiculous and definitely still does more flame damage than the Hetzer, despite flame damage apparently bring "normalised". No other faction can be so frivolous without fear of punishment with their armour

I agree about the Crocodile and the grenade option for the Churchills, which is pretty broken. Apart from that, the KV8 seems to kill a lot faster than the flamehetzer as well, I think it has to do with how many bursts are acutally used in 'one' burst and that could explain why some flametanks do more damage than others.

Tiger also had the best main gun of the war.Here 88 mm has 45 range lol.

Wasn't it 50 by now? Anyway, that means the range of the Tiger is just a lame design choice..

Tiger also had the best main gun of the war.Here 88 mm has 45 range lol.

In real life it also had a cost of 10 shermans.

Want historical accuracy here too?

Wasn't it 50 by now? Anyway, that means the range of the Tiger is just a lame design choice..

Tiger has 40 range, at VET 2 it gets +10 range giving it 50 range (Same with IS-2)

In real life it also had a cost of 10 shermans.

Want historical accuracy here too?

Yes, but then one sherman hit = one dherman killed. You know, historical accuracy.

See?

Show Spoiler

Yes, but then one sherman hit = one dherman killed. You know, historical accuracy.

See?

Show Spoiler

Sure thing, I'll still be 8 shermans ahead after the encounter

As much as ATguns aren't counter to KT, Pak isn't counter to Churchill and its variants.
I can't understand that after more than a month after Brit release, there are still players complaining about pak not making it vs churchills. Change your mentalily, change your play style, evolve!!

Is it that hard to build Stug, Jpz4 like Allied build Jackson, SU and Firefly??

I could understand complains if those dedicated units weren't doing their job, but they do. So stop with your old and outdated pakwall meta: its over vs brit!

Tiger has 40 range, at VET 2 it gets +10 range giving it 50 range (Same with IS-2)

Aah good to know. Thank you.

Tiger has 40 range, at VET 2 it gets +10 range giving it 50 range (Same with IS-2)

Wrong, Tiger has 45 range.
IS-2 have 40.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/67-coh-2-changelog?p=205531#post205531

Sure thing, I'll still be 8 shermans ahead after the encounter

But only of you have Brad Pitt in your crews which is unlikely

In real life it also had a cost of 10 shermans.

Want historical accuracy here too?

I didn't say anything of the sort,don't quote me out of context.My answer was in reply to someone defending churchill armor with real life comparisons.

Tiger has 40 range, at VET 2 it gets +10 range giving it 50 range (Same with IS-2)

source? according to stat.coh2.hu, the tiger has 45 range and at vet 2 gets +5

KT - Buff HP to 1600 and sorted... still able to be hit and kited by everything but at least its got a chance to get outa there before the marked target + TD's reck it.


Nvm just realized we're talking about an axis unit. I forgot an axis unit with 1600 hp or a buff of any kind is taboo in company of Allies.

Are you seriously suggesting you are supposed to lose the game as Axis the moment you lose a vet Pak? You know that Paks are easy to kill and slow? Here is what happened: They were all burnt by the Croc beforehand. Melting through them in 5 secs.

You are beating up a straw man and ignoring my argument. By the time the Croc appears you should have vet on at least one of your AT unit in your army. If you don't, then yes I guess you deserve to be on the back foot yet again and potentially lose. In any case, shooting at max range at crocs will rapidly get vet on paks, which still penetrate crocs reliably, just not every shot. Stugs straight out don't care about the croc because they always outrange it and can disable the gun with an ability they should acquire after no more than 3-4 penetrating shots, if they don't already have vet. Long story short, vet is important so use it to your advantage.
I literally had this match up twice in the same match two days ago, 1 stug and 2 paks, and in both cases I killed the croc as soon as it tried to engage these units. It killed a pak crew on the first try, and nothing on the second try, though it did injure one pak crew. I know exactly what you are talking about.



To those claiming Allied bias on the forums, please don't bother posting. The post is designed to be used for bait into a flame battle and contributes nothing to the discussion. If you feel a unit deserves some form of balance it makes more sense to place your argument on the table than calling everyone else a baby and crying in the corner. There are plenty of threads on Allied units over performing on this forum, and other buff Axis units on this forum.

Wrong, Tiger has 45 range.
IS-2 have 40.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/67-coh-2-changelog?p=205531#post205531

source? according to stat.coh2.hu, the tiger has 45 range and at vet 2 gets +5

Well it seems i have missed that range buff that Tiger received, but atleast they still have the 50 range at VET 2, Thank you for correcting the info

Gosh, I would love to defend the KT in this thread. But when people are coming up with videos like these, in which two high end tank destroyers waste 300 ammo to kill a badly positioned KT, that has no support or vision, there are signs of utter failure from the Axis player.

I see way too many people sending their tanks fighting tank destroyers, losing the battle, then flaming that tank destroyers are OP against tanks.. Sigh.

Badly positioned ? It was positioned safely behind the main front (fuel point on Steppes) and there were 6 squads of infantry 5 seconds away from it.. yet spotted by a glitch it gets instawiped from the FOW in 3 seconds. A unit that's practically irreplaceable for OKW. So I guess, your ratio is that if you decide to go for a true Hi-End unit that costs a fortune you should keep it around your base and dedicate whole your army to babysit it. Maybe in a 1 vs 1 against easy AI

lol this, that KT video is a joke xD

if those are your skilss using a KT, then, yeah, it´s clearly UP and it should have 100 range and x2 his armor, so you don´t lose it.

Your comment is a joke. There are no skills in using the KT, it's too slow and unmaneuverable, and has no special ability's and the only thing you can do with it, is stomp over already defeated enemy, or call it in as a punching bag in other case scenario.

with churchills tanks you can YOLOrun into enemy defenses with very high chances of surviving.
If u try to assault enemy defenses with your KT you will be forced to retreat after 2 shots xD.
Allies have a lot of time to prepare themselves for KT while axis can have hard time to counter a single Churchill tank.

My opinion is that KT costs really too much for what it offers.

Has no shock impact like in coh1,which wasn't OP either.
Its neither an assault tank,nor a meatshield.The main mistake of coh2 was to give allies too many cheap 60 range Tank destroyers.

So... I went through whole thread and the main conclusion is that you want a tank which can:

Yolo ruch into 2 Fireflies.
Counter 60 range TDs
Wipe infantry left and right
More HP
More armor
Is faster than medium tanks
Is cheaper (so it can hit the field around 12min in 4v4 and 15-16min in 2v2)

Nice

I propose simple thing. Buff it by making it avaible despite tech buildings (so its is much cheaper), BUT make it avaible only when your doctrine reaches 15CP (no more yolo rush KT before 20min).
Then you would have 260F tank which fits its price, since you dont need any more all tech buildings, just CPs.

So... I went through whole thread and the main conclusion is that you want a tank which can:

Yolo ruch into 2 Fireflies.
Counter 60 range TDs
Wipe infantry left and right
More HP
More armor
Is faster than medium tanks
Is cheaper (so it can hit the field around 12min in 4v4 and 15-16min in 2v2)

Nice

I propose simple thing. Buff it by making it avaible despite tech buildings (so its is much cheaper), BUT make it avaible only when your doctrine reaches 15CP (no more yolo rush KT before 20min).
Then you would have 260F tank which fits its price, since you dont need any more all tech buildings, just CPs.

You are over-exaggerating the entire thread and several things in that list were already shot down as being a bad buff for the overall game. This whole thread could end up being a moot point if the OKW gets redesigned, but if it doesn't some units might at least get buffed/changed. This thread should be arguments for and against certain things for the unit; not, "historically Brad Pitt was awesome and Tokyo drifted his Easy Eight to one shot a Tiger from behind, while it missed his tank 3 times".


Yolo rush into 2 Fireflies. -I don't think anyone straight up suggested that it should be able to bum rush 2 Fireflys.
Counter 60 range TDs-A range increase to 45-50 was suggested, but a lot of people also dismissed it as being too good, but even then no one suggested 60 range ot directly counter TDs.
Wipe infantry left and right-If this is supposed to be the unit's intended role then a buff to HP would come in handy, but for its cost it is an awfully expensive AI tank.
More HPSee above.
More armor-This would lead to Company of RNG/Bounces and has generally been shot down.
Is faster than medium tanks-No one said it should be faster than Medium tanks, but as one of the slowest tanks in the game with the slowest turret rotation speed and no 60-70 range like turret-less tanks it can be impossible too ever line up a second shot. A small speed buff to movement and turret rotation speed would help, but not like Panther blitzkrieg fast.
Is cheaper (so it can hit the field around 12min in 4v4 and 15-16min in 2v2)-The performance for cost is not that good right now, but lowering the cost hasn't really been brought up yet as spamming them early in big team games would be a problem.

I do think your idea of buffing it but locking it behind CPs is interesting, what would you buff on it to do so however?