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Jagdpanzer IV Penetration

17 Oct 2015, 20:50 PM
#1
avatar of Carlos Danger

Posts: 362

Was just looking at some stats after a recent match - which involved a lot of Churchill tanks - and discovered that the Jagdpanzer IV has the same penetration as the StuG III. Since the Jagdpanzer IV is a rather expensive and very specialized vehicle - not to mention that it used the KwK42 L/70 gun in real life (the same gun the Panther tank used) rather than the StuG's less powerful StuK40 - I think its penetration should be boosted from 200.0/185.0/170.0 to 260.0/240.0/220.0 so that it matches the Panther tank.

The Jagdpanzer isn't a terrible vehicle right now, but it's not exactly great either and I think this change would make it a bit more appealing.
17 Oct 2015, 20:55 PM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Lets increase T34/85 range to 60 and pen to 200-180 for the same reasons in relation to SU-85!
After all they had the same gun!
17 Oct 2015, 20:56 PM
#3
avatar of Panzerschützen

Posts: 186

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Oct 2015, 20:55 PMKatitof
Lets increase T34/85 range to 60 and pen to 200-180 for the same reasons in relation to SU-85!

Yeah and reduce it's anti infantry capabilites to the same degree too, uh?
17 Oct 2015, 20:58 PM
#5
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

You can increase penetration if you reduce reload, would make it better vs heavies but worse vs mediums

Next patch it will fare better vs churchills which will have 40 less armor though
17 Oct 2015, 20:59 PM
#6
avatar of Horasu

Posts: 279

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Oct 2015, 20:55 PMKatitof
Lets increase T34/85 range to 60 and pen to 200-180 for the same reasons in relation to SU-85!


Although usually sarcastic, Katitof has a good point. Balancing through real life mechanics is not something Relic strives to do, nor is it something the game is based on. JP IV is arguably one of the best TDs in the game that is a very reliable purchase by OKW almost all of the time. It does not need buffs.
17 Oct 2015, 21:03 PM
#7
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2


Yeah and reduce it's anti infantry capabilites to the same degree too, uh?


Would still be OP
17 Oct 2015, 21:19 PM
#8
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

Why should the best tank destroyer in the game that also arrives the earliest out of all the tank destroyers and is the least locked out by all techs should get buffs?


It already has very strong vet and probably the most gamebreaking vet 1 ability in the game.
17 Oct 2015, 21:37 PM
#9
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

JPIV is already good and a significant buff like that is unnecessary. Frankly, its vet ability needs nerfs with its ability to Predator-cloak in combat.
17 Oct 2015, 21:43 PM
#10
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Oct 2015, 20:55 PMKatitof
Lets increase T34/85 range to 60 and pen to 200-180 for the same reasons in relation to SU-85!
After all they had the same gun!


It could be increased, but should have a lower fire rate then
nee
17 Oct 2015, 22:09 PM
#11
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

The OP made the suggestion after only looking at game stats compared with StuG III. What's not looked into is how the JP4 works in the game, which is already fine. There is honestly no problem being stated here.

Additional things to consider:

-147 fuel and T2, which would make this replace Panther if it started to get closer stats
-Cloaking as vet1 unlock (which also grants first strike bonus, last I played this unit) and other veterancy bonuses that enhance its capabilities

With all of he above in mind, the JP4 seems fine and doesn't require buffs.
17 Oct 2015, 22:17 PM
#12
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
I dont think so. I even whant to say, that vet 1 of JP need nerf.
17 Oct 2015, 23:26 PM
#13
avatar of IrishHitman79

Posts: 5

I think the unit is fine in every aspect for the role it plays. When used right its a beast on the battlefield but its not very hard to take out also. Its one of the few units that is very rewarding to use, by giving the player great Vet ability's for the effort of Mirco he puts it.

The Vet 1 ability is fine, with its very low profile.

All I ask is a few more Bulletins for it.
17 Oct 2015, 23:32 PM
#14
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

To begin with, it is the very first medium to hit the field no matter how you count fuel, that is it also comes biefore the stug. What's more it counters all the other medium tanks. Lets go further: even without vet it is #2 TD in whole game, with #1 being JT that costs twice as much as JP4. With vet it can even become more usefull than JT, still have much lower popcap/maintance cost and vet quicker. That means it is one of the best specialist units in game and needs no buffs in current state. /thread
17 Oct 2015, 23:36 PM
#15
avatar of IrishHitman79

Posts: 5

On a side note does anybody else feel that the SturmTiger as gone back to being useless?
17 Oct 2015, 23:46 PM
#16
avatar of Carlos Danger

Posts: 362

To begin with, it is the very first medium to hit the field no matter how you count fuel, that is it also comes biefore the stug.
Yes, although I'm not sure if that's relevant. Giving it more penetration isn't exactly going to make it overpowering in the early-game when the best-armoured vehicle around is a Stuart.

What's more it counters all the other medium tanks.
Yes, but it can be circle-strafed (not that it should be), is completely useless against infantry and (ignoring its teching costs) is rather expensive relative to other medium tanks and tank destroyers.

Long story short - this change would only boost the Jagdpanzer's performance against a few Allied units like the Churchill. Its effectiveness against medium tanks would be more-or-less unchanged. And keep in mind that, with the OKW fuel penality, this vehicle costs as much as two StuGs (against, ignoring teching costs).
18 Oct 2015, 00:08 AM
#17
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

I think the unit is fine in every aspect for the role it plays. When used right its a beast on the battlefield but its not very hard to take out also. Its one of the few units that is very rewarding to use, by giving the player great Vet ability's for the effort of Mirco he puts it.

The Vet 1 ability is fine, with its very low profile.

All I ask is a few more Bulletins for it.

The vet ability is fine unless someone activates in combat to suddenly become invisible while actively engaged in combat and drop attack orders against it forcing its enemies to suddenly micro attack-ground. That is why the vet ability needs nerfs.

Also 'cause, ya know, a tank suddenly becoming invisible while you shoot at it is the silliest thing ever. I'd gladly accept another buff to the ability in compensation if necessary, frankly always thought the JPIV should have an actual hold fire button instead of just target vehicles only so it can really get a good jump on something instead of shooting the moment the gun faces a vehicle.
18 Oct 2015, 00:11 AM
#18
avatar of Cultist_kun

Posts: 295 | Subs: 1

Well, jaghtpanzer is quite tricky unit. To be honest I consider it as one of the best TDs in the game if used right and best tank thought whole OKW (even better then Panther in some way).

Jaghtpanzer should be your main AT force rather then haavy support unit. If you manage to get in vet 3+ (and its quite easy, gladly its possible to vet it) it starts destroying everything really badly.

It indeed have some problems with heavy armor, but again, you able to kite your enemy tanks rather badly.

I would say that Elite Armor Shells should be buffed (as a whole commander in general).
18 Oct 2015, 00:56 AM
#19
avatar of colgate

Posts: 44

Shoots are bouncing on paper armoured allied vehicles thas why u need more penetration i guess.
18 Oct 2015, 01:30 AM
#20
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

When I play the OKW,I always build a Jagdpanzer first to counter the centaur rush.It's pretty fine. Then you don't need a panther at all.
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