Give Volks MP44 through Veterancy

Volks suck and obers are still expensive and locked behind T4. Imo something needs to be changed whether it is the MG34 getting swapped with the kubel and becoming non doc or volks getting a major change in AI or vet.

Sturms were decreased in reinforce but it hardly made any difference, half their vet being not related to combat makes them inferior in scaling to cons or rifles (especially as vet 4+ sturms are unicorns with the exp requirements).

Literally every OKW player in OCF just sat with a med truck and spammed jaegers into Jagdpanzer, because that is all you can pretty much do to remain relevant against Soviet/USF core infantry backed by fast light vehicles.

BREAKING NEWS! Existence of weak commanders among WFA factions confirmed!!!

USF has literally 1 semi-weak commander. OKW has like 3 (Elite Armored, Luftwaffe, Fort), all of those are nonviable because they are either A. Buggy as hell or B. Just underwhelming and invalidated by current meta.

Right now there is nothing really special to OKW, since they decided to give British units extremely powerful vet that easily beats out what OKW gets in several area's. All you have is a fuel penalty and trucks.

(IS have 0.528 at vet 2, that's better received accuracy at vet two then almost all OKW units at Vet 5).

Yeah most people don't realize that if the sole scalability of a unit belonging to an elite, infantry focused army is to be cannon fodder and AT, that unit sucks.

Buffing vet 4 and 5 are obvious solutions, however it still doesn't solve okws weakness fighting in up close areas, nor their huge MP float bonus which encourages spamming as opposed to tactical play. No other faction has elite and line infantry overlap as much.

There also is a weird way in how OKW vet is laid out were some units don't get any offensive buffs till they hit a very high level of vet like Fallsch (only get better at killing at Vet 4) or to a lesser extent JLI and the MG34 (only get better at killing starting at Vet 3).

Then you have another form of that were you have entire levels taken up with useless crap like Med kits, concussion nades, and sprint (this doesn't mean Fuss don't scale well I just think it looks and feels silly and encourages bad play, also the Sprint only really makes you 1 speed faster so eh).

If OKW's entire thing is supposed to be far superior Vet then it needs to actually have far superior vet, because right now nothing about the faction scales nearly as well because on later vehicles the game doesn't last long enough for an impact and the requirements are stupidly high (there's also the whole thing with KT vet being atrocious but w/e).

A solution to this is just rip out vet 5 and cram all the levels in to 3 so you have more reliable scaling over the normal course of a match or just put more stuff in period.

There also is a weird way in how OKW vet is laid out were some units don't get any offensive buffs till they hit a very high level of vet like Fallsch (only get better at killing at Vet 4) or to a lesser extent JLI and the MG34 (only get better at killing starting at Vet 3).

Then you have another form of that were you have entire levels taken up with useless crap like Med kits, concussion nades, and sprint (this doesn't mean Fuss don't scale well I just think it looks and feels silly and encourages bad play, also the Sprint only really makes you 1 speed faster so eh).

If OKW's entire thing is supposed to be far superior Vet then it needs to actually have far superior vet, because right now nothing about the faction scales nearly as well because on later vehicles the game doesn't last long enough for an impact and the requirements are stupidly high (there's also the whole thing with KT vet being atrocious but w/e).

A solution to this is just rip out vet 5 and cram all the levels in to 3 so you have more reliable scaling over the normal course of a match or just put more stuff in period.

Or standardize Veterancy across every unit for OKW; vet 1 would be ability/buff, 2-3 standard vet, 4 would have to be healing for infantry, and sprint, vet 5 would be mega OP status-maybe all vet 5 units could get a passive weapon upgrade like G41s for Obers, MP44 Volks, and so on. Just brainstorming.

I like your idea better and I think vet 4-5 is a stupid gimmick too-but Relics advertised it as a key OKW "feature", so it's safe to assume that if change is coming, it'll be a refinement and not a rework.

OKW has got plenty of AI already imo, volks are great, just don't solo with them in late game and support them with indirect fire, vehicles and elite AI infantry.

Volks got a clear supporting role in late game, AT, anti harass, they have alot of units with great AI.

Imo it's bad to give one unit too many roles.

(Putting this in it's own post to keep formatting and not hurt eyeballs)

Received Accuracy at maximum Vet/Effective Health versus small arms at maximum vet:

Volks: .81/493
Riflemen: .59/669
Conscripts: .65/738
Sturms: 0.43/729
IS/Royal Engineers: 0.528/757
Heavy Engineers: .528 + 2 armor/1515
Fallsch: .55/575
JLI: .403/793
Obers: .35/906
Fuss: .77/623

I think we can see the issue here, that not only do some OKW units at Vet 5 not have as much durability, but the ones that do have barely more than basic allied infantry. It simply does not make sense. And of course this is assuming you are even able to get some of those expensive elite infantry all the way to Vet 5. If you compare the situation at Vet 3 only it's a lot more dire.

OKW has got plenty of AI already imo, volks are great, just don't solo with them in late game and support them with indirect fire, vehicles and elite AI infantry.

Volks got a clear supporting role in late game, AT, anti harass, they have alot of units with great AI.

Imo it's bad to give one unit too many roles.

What is wrong about Volks doing solo things and right about Riflemen doing literally everything? Why would a faction who's supposed to have superior scaling have it's basic infantry scale barely at all?

USF, Soviets, and Brits all have all the things you listed but don't need to pay for it with a fuel penalty or have to pay for the extra vet for the extra levels.

Also "Vehicles" should be in huge quotation marks, since your 1 vehicle is normally going to be a JPIV you need to hold by the tide.

Why does it seem like everyone who never plays OKW thinks Volks are great

I wouldn't mind Volks price going up if they took on a role other than spam-meatshields with rockets.

Both usf and soviets are ballanced in the way that they have short range units while axis have long/mid range units. There are ofc exceptions but only doctrinal ones. Giving volks a short range weapon would destroy it concluding in many new ballance problems so obviously this is a bad idea.

Both usf and soviets are ballanced in the way that they have short range units while axis have long/mid range units. There are ofc exceptions but only doctrinal ones. Giving volks a short range weapon would destroy it concluding in many new ballance problems so obviously this is a bad idea.

This would make sense if it wasn't easy for Riflemen and Con's to just walk right up to Volks and easily kick their ass in short range combat without heavy losses. It's silly that there is such a huge disparity in scaling now between basic units.

You say Sturms are only for repairing late-game, but why not attacking AND repairing? USF makes it work with REs. Goodness knows I've been making it work if I treat them like squishy shock troops w/o smoke nades. And if you don't have enough dedicated sturms for reps, just make more! You agree that OKW has manpower float, right?

This would make sense if it wasn't easy for Riflemen and Con's to just walk right up to Volks and easily kick their ass in short range combat without heavy losses. It's silly that there is such a huge disparity in scaling now between basic units.

I actually agree, they are pretty bad at vet0 and should get +20% acc on vet 0 while changing both vet2 and vet4 bonus from +30% to +20% not to make them any stronger past vet3. That way they will be able to bleed allied infantry better on long and mid range. Also there are two t0 units that were ment to stop incoming allied forces: sturms and kubel, so they dont need more buffs.

You say Sturms are only for repairing late-game, but why not attacking AND repairing? USF makes it work with REs. Goodness knows I've been making it work if I treat them like squishy shock troops w/o smoke nades. And if you don't have enough dedicated sturms for reps, just make more! You agree that OKW has manpower float, right?

OKW has mp float because Kubel opening, Volks are dirt cheap, and JLI, Pfusies, and Obers are all absurdly cost efficient...at range.

Use Sturms as your basic infantry and you'll discover that the float is gone

If the enemy focuses Obers with his infantry (which is not going to do much damage unless you have some vet3 Paras combined with Pathfinders) you can use the Volksgrenadiers to move in and do some actual damage with them (by the time you have elite infantry, your volks should have a good amount of vet, atleast vet2). Don't forget, Volks still have access on one of the secret nazi weapons: incendiary grenades

my reaction to the bold part.



And you still haven't learned to dodge a nade? once again: how the fuck you accuse me of micro when your own micro is apparently horribly shit.

OKW has mp float because Kubel opening, Volks are dirt cheap, and JLI, Pfusies, and Obers are all absurdly cost efficient...at range.

Use Sturms as your basic infantry and you'll discover that the float is gone

Where do people get these absurd thoughts from? okw has mp float because they dont have the fuel to buy vehicles.

USF has literally 1 semi-weak commander. OKW has like 3 (Elite Armored, Luftwaffe, Fort), all of those are nonviable because they are either A. Buggy as hell or B. Just underwhelming and invalidated by current meta.

Right now there is nothing really special to OKW, since they decided to give British units extremely powerful vet that easily beats out what OKW gets in several area's. All you have is a fuel penalty and trucks.

(IS have 0.528 at vet 2, that's better received accuracy at vet two then almost all OKW units at Vet 5).

1 thats-semi weak? You mean 2 that are dogshit awful (mech and recon)

You say Sturms are only for repairing late-game, but why not attacking AND repairing? USF makes it work with REs. Goodness knows I've been making it work if I treat them like squishy shock troops w/o smoke nades. And if you don't have enough dedicated sturms for reps, just make more! You agree that OKW has manpower float, right?

OKW MP float is largely absent in lower game modes, and generally happens because everyone else is spending MP on tanks while your spending it on...spamming more infantry

Also USF makes it work because all their crews can repair, and RE's are 160 MP not 320. Having more than 1 Sturm is generally the meta now and you will be rotating them back and forth repairing and attacking.

Iv still have yet to see a substantive argument against buffing Volks that actually uses numbers instead of vague feelings.

I actually agree, they are pretty bad at vet0 and should get +20% acc on vet 0 while changing both vet2 and vet4 bonus from +30% to +20% not to make them any stronger past vet3. That way they will be able to bleed allied infantry better on long and mid range. Also there are two t0 units that were ment to stop incoming allied forces: sturms and kubel, so they dont need more buffs.

You can't spam Kubels or Sturms, getting more than any one of those to early on can be extremely risky. It also seems kinda silly you need to put a lot more effort into fighting the enemy than your opponent does.

What Volks need for their Vet isn't more at Vet 0, it's for them to just have a cost increase with performance increase (say 255 MP for a middleground between Rifles and Grens like IS?) and or a cover bonus similar to IS so they won't be blobbed.

1 thats-semi weak? You mean 2 that are dogshit awful (mech and recon)

Recon IS weak and bad but Mech is actually quite popular (if still underwhelming compared to the extremely powerful Infantry and Rifle companies) in 1v1 and 2v2 now that the WC51 has a role that exists and the whole "always go for Stuart" thing meshes well with withdraw and refit plus that Dank artillery.

I actually kinda forgot Recon existed, Iv not used it in months and you never see it.

Where do people get these absurd thoughts from? okw has mp float because they dont have the fuel to buy vehicles.

OMG seriously?! So if I go USF and buy no vehicles I'll have MP float?! Oh wait