Give Volks MP44 through Veterancy

In lategame Volks serve no purpose except capping, crewing, and AT. Lategame OKW has no assault units, making them A-move focused, poor in close quarters, and exaberating their MP float problem. Having Volks transition from early game line that is supported by Sturms to lategame assault that supports Obers makes perfect sense. (Lategame Sturms are repairing/engineering, thus not ready for combat duty.)

I figure at vet 3 2 MP44 with stats similar to Con PPSH, maybe a tad better. At vet 5 they would get two more, meaning with Shrek upgrade entire squad would have assault rifles.

Obviously this effect shouldn't be overpowering at all- slowly decreasing long range power, encouraging attacking/taking casualties- while having Volks remain the "potent, frontline infantry" they should be at all game stages.

Idea could use tweaking but is good in principle, OKW has NO dedicated CQC assault units and currently Volks are overshadowed by call-in troops.

yea, id like volks to become more independent in the AI department as OKW just needs to rely on vehicles and elite infantry to combat other core infantry units with vet.

Volks vs Tommies lategame is just...

Same goes for Riflemen.

that will intensify their blobabilty even further

I'd acually prefer an upgrade that gives them 3x STG44s and PzFausts for like 75-90 ammo.

I don't really like shrecks for Volks but relic will never change that I guess.

Completely makes sense for cheapest base, spammable, easily maintainable infantry to have best AT weapon and one of best AI weapons.

Seems like 100% balanced decision, we should implement it ASAP.

fuck no

In lategame Volks serve no purpose except capping, crewing, and AT.

Isn't that a good thing? OKW vehicles cannot cap, and Sturmpioniers are there to repair stuff while Obers fill the anti-infantry role.

Lategame OKW has no assault units, making them A-move focused, poor in close quarters, and exaberating their MP float problem. Having Volks transition from early game line that is supported by Sturms to lategame assault that supports Obers makes perfect sense. (Lategame Sturms are repairing/engineering, thus not ready for combat duty.)

I always thought Obers did the assault role.

I figure at vet 3 2 MP44 with stats similar to Con PPSH, maybe a tad better. At vet 5 they would get two more, meaning with Shrek upgrade entire squad would have assault rifles.

Here's an even more outrageous statement: craft Obers to be the assault unit you desire. Or maybe it's not an assault unit you're looking for it's the image of Volksgrenadier troops wielding assault rifles.

Obviously this effect shouldn't be overpowering at all- slowly decreasing long range power, encouraging attacking/taking casualties- while having Volks remain the "potent, frontline infantry" they should be at all game stages.

Regardless of whether Obers are already fulfilling that role or not, I'd say Obers are a more suitable unit for that role.

Idea could use tweaking but is good in principle, OKW has NO dedicated CQC assault units and currently Volks are overshadowed by call-in troops.

I personally don't think they NEED a dedicated close combat unit, and they seem to perform fine. If they NEED a dedicated CQC unit you can always consider call-in units for a close combat niche. Then again, FJs and infrared MP44s.

If VOlksgrenadiers are meant to be cheap fill-the gaps infantry with lots of roles, I don't see giving them an additional as well as central combat role makes them stay that way; that just promotes more Volkspam.

Now if Obers fill that role that's fine, you at least get late-game firepower via lategame unit, who already performs well at long range. Their cost, squad size and queue slot competing with tanks makes them much more suitable for this role. This also takes care of the MP float problem you say- Obers cost quite some manpower, and seeing some complaints about their usefulness in a match, it makes even more sense to give them this role.
And if Obers get this role instead of Volks, you diversify the faction entirely, not concentrating all the benefits of tactical diversity into a single unit that is cheap to train, comes early, and comes quick. You would also have great incentive to rush for T4 truck ASAP. IMO, Obers are problematic precisely because there's little use to them, their role as long range super Volks without AT pretty much demands they get this job.

AFAIK, OKW needs CQC units the same way USF needs meatier tanks.

Completely makes sense for cheapest base, spammable, easily maintainable infantry to have best AT weapon and one of best AI weapons.

Seems like 100% balanced decision, we should implement it ASAP.

its fun to see your core infantry lose to all other infantry isnt it?

Completely makes sense for cheapest base, spammable, easily maintainable infantry to have best AT weapon and one of best AI weapons.

Seems like 100% balanced decision, we should implement it ASAP.

Dude, connect the dots.

MP44 stats would be roughly analogous to Cons PPSH with maybe less ranged DPS, and it would be acquired through Veterancy.

If they wanted to damage enemy troops high vet Volks would HAVE to engage at close to medium range, doing more damage while also taking more casualties in process.

In effect this change gives Volks more prominent role over call-in troops; however, Volks become more of a MP drain.

Gives OKW more viable strategies, isn't OP at all-is good.

I propose buffing their kars a bit. You signature is hilarious lol.

its fun to see your core infantry lose to all other infantry isnt it?

Then I suppose its good that they have extremely potent stock elite infantry then, which they can protect with best handheld AT and being meat shields?

"extremely potent" would make more sense if you were talking about their efficiency when the WFA got released. They are below average now.

Obersoldaten, Jäger, Fallschirmjäger, Panzerfüsiliers? Anyone?

Then I suppose its good that they have extremely potent stock elite infantry then, which they can protect with best handheld AT and being meat shields?

oh, because getting to T4 and going Obers is so easily affordable in a close game? Because relying on your 1 Ober to counter 4 core units is fun?

Then I suppose its good that they have extremely potent stock elite infantry then, which they can protect with best handheld AT and being meat shields?

looking at it a different way, they have two long range infantry troop options. Making Volks CQC unit, without choice, lategame actually hurts the method you describe above because bleeding the blob with long range infantry/indirect is much easier.

Then I suppose its good that they have extremely potent stock elite infantry then, which they can protect with best handheld AT and being meat shields?

I wonder, what on earth does satisfy your bias needs?

I wonder, what on earth does satisfy your bias needs?

Bathing in blood of tousand noobs.

Though tears do nicely as well.

Thing is, you're trying to make volks into something they aren't supposed to be.
You could just as well suggest soviet weapon upgrades for conscripts without the need for doctrine.
They have excelent scaling, clear role, multitude of doctrinal infantry to supplement them if you're unable to go for obers for one reason or another.

There is nothing wrong or lacking about volks, you have 5 types of dedicated AI infantry, you don't need 6th as OKW.

Funny people said the same thing about cons, but everyone says they are fine and should no get non doc weapons, now here we are with volks who have more utility than cons and people want to give them non doc upgrades

... principle, OKW has NO dedicated CQC assault units and currently Volks are overshadowed by call-in troops.

I've got an idea:
We give OKW some sort of Heavy Pios. Let's call them Sturmpioniere, and give them a similar weapons profile like PGrens, for short- & mid ranged engagements, with lot's of DPS!

How does that sound?



Really not a huge fan of your idea, mainly because of the forced change in combat distance - a doctrinal upgrade might be a fun option to have though.

Bathing in blood of tousand noobs.

Though tears do nicely as well.

Thing is, you're trying to make volks into something they aren't supposed to be.
You could just as well suggest soviet weapon upgrades for conscripts without the need for doctrine.
They have excelent scaling, clear role, multitude of doctrinal infantry to supplement them if you're unable to go for obers for one reason or another.

There is nothing wrong or lacking about volks, you have 5 types of dedicated AI infantry, you don't need 6th as OKW.

I am not trying to turn volks into anything, I don't know why you accuse me of that Katikof. I am actually genuinely interested in what would make you happy within this game.

You never seem to agree with anything.