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[OKW] [All Modes] [2x ISG ending the game VS brits]

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WFA_DoomTornado
21 Sep 2015, 09:58 AM
#1
avatar of WFA_DoomTornado

Posts: 100

  • Problem2x ISG has became a nightmare for anyone playing as brits these days. The 2 rather cheap arties render all brits emplacements useless and also wipe IS and pin and wipe HMGs.


  • Solution #1: Increase the cost to 500MP and reduce the penetration value from 80 down to 25 and lower the range to 70. or;

  • Solution #2: Remove the pinning effect and reduce the penetration value from 80 down to 25 and lower the range to 70.



Its range needs to be much shorter than what it currently is.
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Zyllen
21 Sep 2015, 10:09 AM
#2
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770

The whole point of arty is to counter static defensive positions. what both leig and the pak howie needs is that the suppression modifier is reverted to the previous patch.
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KyleAkira
21 Sep 2015, 10:13 AM
#3
avatar of KyleAkira

Posts: 410

What you claim is an overnerf and will make the unit completely useless.

Remove suppresion and increase cost to 400. Then add the +15 range on vet2. That would be fine.

Reducing the rate of fire could be another solution but then the cost should remain the same.
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Maschinengewehr
21 Sep 2015, 10:35 AM
#4
avatar of Maschinengewehr

Posts: 334

Or just revert them to how they were pre-TBF release? As a consolation for the inevitable moaning give LeiGs a free smoke barrage at vet 1 instead.
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JohnnyB
21 Sep 2015, 10:41 AM
#5
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Sep 2015, 10:35 AMMaschinengewehr
Or just revert them to how they were pre-TBF release?


Meaning expensive and completely useless? Wouldn't you like that, lol.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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Rollo
21 Sep 2015, 10:59 AM
#6
avatar of Rollo

Posts: 738

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Sep 2015, 09:58 AMWFA_DoomTornado

Its range needs to be much shorter than what it currently is.


No it doesn't, it needs the range to deal with the 82mm and 120mm as it lacks mobility and the ability to retreat.

Before the buff OKW didn't even have a counter to the above mentioned units, the ISG was a waste of MP.

British emplacements are overpriced but that's another issue for another thread.
Click for depression

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bert69
21 Sep 2015, 11:02 AM
#7
avatar of bert69

Posts: 150

Imho, either its autoattack needs to be toned down, or it needs to be made more expensive, while 660 MP for 2 leigs is a hefty investment, they basically mean an auto win for the OKW in any engagement within its range.
My only complaint is that people who buy leigs are probably not even aware when it wipes a squad, it should require micro, however little to be made effective. Maybe set it to permanent hold fire, and will only fire when you specifically command it to attack a unit or barrage a target?
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Katitof
21 Sep 2015, 11:05 AM
#8
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Give it scatter and reload values of 120mm mortar.

There, fixed. Same cost, same damage, same range, same scatter, added bonus of suppression, added bonus of shorter travel time of the projectile.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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WFA_DoomTornado
21 Sep 2015, 11:20 AM
#9
avatar of WFA_DoomTornado

Posts: 100

^ how is that going to make emplacements safer? Aside from taking slightly longer to destroy them? Its penetration is the issue here.


jump backJump back to quoted post21 Sep 2015, 10:59 AMRollo


it lacks mobility
You are confusing it with the leFH i think.

The leIG was supposed to help in these situations, which is understandable and indeed needed. However it's ridiculously potent and game braking against the brits and their core design element, emplacements.
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AchtAchter
21 Sep 2015, 12:19 PM
#10
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

Solution: Revert the changes of the pack howitzer and the ISG and add a smoke barrage as a vet 1 ability instead of an increased range for ISG.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu

Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here

Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
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drChengele
21 Sep 2015, 12:27 PM
#11
avatar of drChengele
Patrion 14

Posts: 640 | Subs: 1

The LeiG is batshit insane this patch. It combines the utility of a sniper at long range, and a Maxim at shorter ones, except unlike the maxim it sometimes instapins after a single shot.

The argument that LeIG is necessary to deal with Brits and therefore must remain a beast versus infantry, for some reason ... yeah, that doesn't hold water. Brit emplacements are enormous, and for a reason - increasing scatter wouldn't really affect the gun's damage against them.

And why should its range be justified with "it needs to deal with 120mm mortar"? Why not increase the range of the 120mm because "it needs that range to deal with the LeIG"? The logic is exactly the same. LeIG is more mobile than the mortar, because there is no setup / unsetup time. OKW players need to get over the concept that their unit must automatically be better than all its counterparts for reasons.
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broodwarjc
21 Sep 2015, 12:39 PM
#12
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 824

A single Leig/Pack Howie does not insta-pin. Please someone show me a replay where this happens, because I have yet to see it. The unit either needs a cost increase or a slight scatter increase, but don't make it like it was before where it was a very inaccurate PoS.
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JohnnyB
21 Sep 2015, 12:42 PM
#13
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

The moment one axis unit transforms from only expensive and shitty to usefull al allied fanboys start filling the forums with their tears.

And what should OKW has to destroy emplacements? Kubelwagens? OKW hasn't howitzers, normal mortars, etc. Wurframen comes late, costs fuel - and OKW is a faction with penalty - and does shit agains emplacements. In addition it has a looooong reload time. Sorry, I disagree rushing as hell a jagdpanzer just to kill one of your emplacements. There have to be other options like balistic weapons that are good for something.

In fact, you guys simply cannot abuse of emplacements anymore in early game, so you can confortably wait for your churchills and call the ISG OP. Pfff....

This thread is ridiculous and full of people who want an "I win" button sooo badly so they can masturbate at their british stats. :facepalm:
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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VenstreDjevel
21 Sep 2015, 12:57 PM
#14
avatar of VenstreDjevel

Posts: 55

Alot of why this unit is good at the moment is because it needed to be, brit emplacements have the same vunerabilities as okw trucks except the trucks don't have brace.
LeIG was originally used to counter all indirect fire wasting away trucks, it got given suppression because relic cant balance mg34 or kubel and to get people to actually use the unit instead of spending that mp towards more ober/volks blobs.

The minute my LeIG can fire on things directly in front of it or has 6 men you can compare it to the maxim. It does have to be pointed at the targets its firing at so I will concede that, but hey what does setup time really mean?

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AchtAchter
21 Sep 2015, 12:59 PM
#15
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Sep 2015, 12:42 PMJohnnyB


The problem is that brits lack a counter proper counter for isg spam.
Soviets -> Katyusha
USF -> Priest / Pack Howi spam
Brits -> ??? AVRE but it comes far too late to be an effective counter.

The infantry support gun/pack howi should provide indirect fire to support your units and punish turteling, but they should not win all the engangments on their own. Right now they act like supressing platforms with huge ranges.
They were fine before the recent changes, but now the are far too dominant.

In addition infantry support guns hard counter brit emplacements since brace was nerfed. Games simply don't make fun anymore since infantry combat, a core mechanic, is nullified by team weapon spam.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu

Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here

Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
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Shanka
21 Sep 2015, 13:18 PM
#16
avatar of Shanka

Posts: 323

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Sep 2015, 12:42 PMJohnnyB
The moment one axis unit transforms from only expensive and shitty to usefull al allied fanboys start filling the forums with their tears.

And what should OKW has to destroy emplacements? Kubelwagens? OKW hasn't howitzers, normal mortars, etc. Wurframen comes late, costs fuel - and OKW is a faction with penalty - and does shit agains emplacements. In addition it has a looooong reload time. Sorry, I disagree rushing as hell a jagdpanzer just to kill one of your emplacements. There have to be other options like balistic weapons that are good for something.

In fact, you guys simply cannot abuse of emplacements anymore in early game, so you can confortably wait for your churchills and call the ISG OP. Pfff....

This thread is ridiculous and full of people who want an "I win" button sooo badly so they can masturbate at their british stats. :facepalm:


This :rofl:

Stop your bias man it's so funny, go play allies sometimes you will learn that the "i win" button is on the axis camp :)

EDIT: I agree, that OKW need a counter to emplacements, but it's an overbuff, brits don't get a mobile mortar, it's need a balance
History
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Esxile
21 Sep 2015, 13:38 PM
#17
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

The problem is mainly "How can you take it down when it is next to the PanzerHQ". Basically you can't approach it until you have medium tanks.

This unit should keep it damage output but not the range. To balance it, I can see it having 60-70 range and a retreat button.

As a comparison, it is like building ML20 or B4 arty in your base sector.
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drChengele
21 Sep 2015, 13:39 PM
#18
avatar of drChengele
Patrion 14

Posts: 640 | Subs: 1

Johhny, what if I play Soviets and US and in fact have no emplacements. Are you saying the LeIG is magically unable to fire at my troops and supress them from mortar range with zero micro requirement?

I suppose I just want an "I win button", huh. I'm such a noob.
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Zyllen
21 Sep 2015, 13:45 PM
#19
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Sep 2015, 13:18 PMShanka


This :rofl:

Stop your bias man it's so funny, go play allies sometimes you will learn that the "i win" button is on the axis camp :)

EDIT: I agree, that OKW need a counter to emplacements, but it's an overbuff, brits don't get a mobile mortar, it's need a balance


No he is correct their is a shitload of bias here. despite the pak howie does FAR more damage and suppression their is not single thread about it. current leigh is fine and people need to accept that this unit is actually useful.

Christ this reminds when the mg42 got buffed to no longer suck their was a major outcry by noobie fanboys that could no longer oorah + molotov right into a mg42.
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slother
21 Sep 2015, 13:46 PM
#20
avatar of slother

Posts: 145

Revert last patch changes for both leig and pack howi. Replace vet1 with smoke or Blendkörper 2H Frangible Smoke Grenade:) No need to overnerf leig it was useless long enough.
20:53 - slother: its time
20:54 - Вοгіﻛ Τ Rατ: fail time
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20:54 - Вοгіﻛ Τ Rατ: hehe let me have a shower
20:54 - Вοгіﻛ Τ Rατ: i need to feel clean for the rape
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