Can we please give brits some viable artillery?

Make the guns free, or increase the call-in range to sight range.

The guns themselves could probably use some help too.

Making the guns free doesnt do a thing. The brits need effective artillery that isnt castable from grenade range(even if it makes it buyable in tier 3).
Just a FYI, the Sexton has 2x Less AOE than a 105, fire only 5 rounds(10 with LEF18 and 7 with Priest),has a longer cooldown than the LEF18 or the Priest, alot smaller range, same CP requirement and has extremely big veterancy requirements. In 15 games with royal arty i couldnt get it to vet 1.

Care to elaborate on the success you've had using Royal Artillery for us then?

He doesn't play allies, so don't waste your time.

It takes a single game to realize the (im)potency of British indirect fire.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/40469/spotter-tommies-should-be-able-to-call-down-smoke-barrage

http://www.coh2.org/topic/40469/spotter-tommies-should-be-able-to-call-down-smoke-barrage

Great idea, but still doesnt fix the problem of the artillery entirely. Would be great if it would be both though.

He doesn't play Brits, so don't waste your time.

It takes a single game to realize the (im)potency of British indirect fire.

There, fixed it for ya. Because I don't own them. And you are incorrect. The effects of british artillery are not felt by the partner but by the opponent, won't you agree?

Making the guns free doesnt do a thing. The brits need effective artillery that isnt castable from grenade range(even if it makes it buyable in tier 3).

Well alternatively like I said, replace it with a Radio Pack upgrade so you can call it in on whatever that unit can see.

while the lack of viable artillery is pretty bad, atm I am more bothered by the lack of house clearing tools.

The Wasp die too easily to be a reliable counter. I think the british need incendiary grenade on their sapper to round out the package. It should be packaged with their mills bomb upgrade.

while i do agree that the british base arty is a bit underwhelming, i think it shouldn't be strong since it both non doctrinal and pretty much indestrucable. iirc it's pretty cheap too.

now as to why i think the indirect fire options of the ukf aren't as bad as brit players make them out to be:

1. doctrinal arty: you have offmap arty and onmap callin arty already.
2. mortar pits: if you want to play defensive with emplacements, you can get mortar pits which do a pretty decent job. brace nerf made them actually destructable, and not every faction/commander does have a ISG/Mortar HT available to them.
3. you didnt go for emplacements? great, that means you chose the offensive tree, why would you want indirect fire in the first place then? you are running around, capping the map, fighting favorable engagements, avoiding unfavorable ones. enemy dug in in front of his base, trying to cling on to like 1/4 or 1/3 of the map? now even the inaccurate arty becomes a whole lot better AND you already have most of the map anyway... you can just defend what you have and wait for late game, where you will crush pretty much everything he can throw at you.


every faction plays differently, thats why almost every person has a preference for one over another. If you try playing another factions using the same tactics despite them functioning completely different... maybe you deserve to lose a few games. how about you try playing what you think is so OP against brits and start crushing opponents if it is that easy? there's two possible outcomes: a) you crush everyone because what claimed is OP really is OP and you become the best there ever lived yadda yadda or b) you get beaten.
if b) happens, you now have a blueprint to beat what you were facing all along and claimed was so OP.

Firstly i would propose the following:
1. AOE fixed, it shouldnt be half the power of a 105(its a 87.6 mm gun)
2. The rate of fire(it fires slower than the 105) even though its the lightest Artillery in the game(static)
3.Smoke artillery for the Radio pack upgrade for IS
4. Radio pack for IS so they can call it in without the red smoke(if the enemy has a squad nearby with the icon on top of em for spotter and the howies are firing you know where its firing) and it can be casted at max range or a bit further.

Just a fyi, this would be the start and we could adjust further on. Thoughts?

Also the 100 muni ability(for RA) needs to be alot quicker to call in or alot more accurate.So a fast response type of arty or a precision arty.

I had a game with birts where the Base arty didn't even hit no where near or in the circle of cast...

I mean seriously the arty is so bullshit, you can say "it's free" but it's shit, if i had to choose betwenn something not free and effective and something free and effective at killing bugs 200 meters off target, i will choose the paying option.

Sexton is so garbage i use it like a zis barrage at close range when i missclick on this pile of dirt and you know what ? IT DOESN'T EVEN SCRATCH ANYTHING

I still use flare on IS to scare noobish axis players who thinks they're gonna be fucked by the arty, i use it more like the fake barrage on the major.

Brit arty is a joke

while i do agree that the british base arty is a bit underwhelming, i think it shouldn't be strong since it both non doctrinal and pretty much indestrucable. iirc it's pretty cheap too.

now as to why i think the indirect fire options of the ukf aren't as bad as brit players make them out to be:

1. doctrinal arty: you have offmap arty and onmap callin arty already.
2. mortar pits: if you want to play defensive with emplacements, you can get mortar pits which do a pretty decent job. brace nerf made them actually destructable, and not every faction/commander does have a ISG/Mortar HT available to them.
3. you didnt go for emplacements? great, that means you chose the offensive tree, why would you want indirect fire in the first place then? you are running around, capping the map, fighting favorable engagements, avoiding unfavorable ones. enemy dug in in front of his base, trying to cling on to like 1/4 or 1/3 of the map? now even the inaccurate arty becomes a whole lot better AND you already have most of the map anyway... you can just defend what you have and wait for late game, where you will crush pretty much everything he can throw at you.


every faction plays differently, thats why almost every person has a preference for one over another. If you try playing another factions using the same tactics despite them functioning completely different... maybe you deserve to lose a few games. how about you try playing what you think is so OP against brits and start crushing opponents if it is that easy? there's two possible outcomes: a) you crush everyone because what claimed is OP really is OP and you become the best there ever lived yadda yadda or b) you get beaten.
if b) happens, you now have a blueprint to beat what you were facing all along and claimed was so OP.

1. Every other faction has some sort of stock, mobile, artillery UNIT. I dont see why this shouldnt be the case with brits
2. you said it yourself. Only "viable" if you plan to dig in and even then it is easily countered by enemy artillery because you cannot reposition it.
3. This is soviet tech tree discussion all over again. The changes to their tech tree cheese were made for a reason. You either have artillery and anti tank or light vehicles and tanks, not both?
This is terrible design. Just because I want to play agressively doesnt mean that I shouldnt have the tools to deal with defensive enemies.

You cannot run over an OKW defensive line with brute force tank and infantry rushes, not against potent enemies and it certainly should NOT be the only viable tactic vs defensive enemies. Brits need arty to deal with it plain and simple

I wish relic would give the brits the "land mattress" which was found in the game files. That should be sufficient indirect fire support.

1. Every other faction has some sort of stock, mobile, artillery UNIT. I dont see why this shouldnt be the case with brits
2. you said it yourself. Only "viable" if you plan to dig in and even then it is easily countered by enemy artillery because you cannot reposition it.
3. This is soviet tech tree discussion all over again. The changes to their tech tree cheese were made for a reason. You either have artillery and anti tank or light vehicles and tanks, not both?
This is terrible design. Just because I want to play agressively doesnt mean that I shouldnt have the tools to deal with defensive enemies.

You cannot run over an OKW defensive line with brute force tank and infantry rushes, not against potent enemies and it certainly should NOT be the only viable tactic vs defensive enemies. Brits need arty to deal with it plain and simple

and you do have arty. ostheer doesnt get tiger and elefant and osttruppen and mortar ht and ... and ... and ... non doctrinal. if brits can get a t0 light vehicle, why doesn't ostheer get t0 paks or schrecks? "oh but you have fausts!" - yeah, if you're stupid enough to drive your bren into grens AND lose it afterwards because you sent it in unsupported, maybe you deserve to lose it. just like with emplacements etc. if you dont support it, you deserve to lose it. the base arty is, i admit, rather ineffective. but also inexpensive. and dropping that arty does force the enemy to reposition at the very least.

or, you know what... sure, you can get a mobile mortar... but instead you can't build centaur. or churchill.

every faction has some strengths and weaknesses. if you take away the weaknesses, you are left with only strengths... which is never good for balance.


edit: or, to pick up a recent thread: EVERY OTHER faction gets free green cover, why not ostheer?
i'm fairly certain that if you argue for brit indirect fire, you also argue against ostheer green cover. so whenever you ask yourself why brits don't have great non-doctrinal indirect fire, ask yourself why ostheer doesn't have green cover... same reason.

@cr4wler: what type of flawed logic is this? So you are basically saying "hurr, brits have good late game tanks, so they dont need good arty, this is a soviet thing"? Really? What is your magical counter to heavily defended positions? Churchill croc rush against the pak wall?

How many games did you play as british? Pls play some teamgames vs ISG spam or 3v3 with Ost new Panzerwerfer and come back to this thread and tell us how brits DONT need good artillery. Please tell me again how you can counter panzerwerfe with the mortar pit

The way you describe the 25 pdr as "Rather ineffective" is nowhere near how the unit performs in reality. its more like "Nowhere near effective", it does absolutely nothing.

Who cares if those guns are free if they do not do any job at all? They are useless for damaging defensive positions and also useless for area denial, mainly due to abysmal damage and huge scatter.

I would pay for 25pdr anyday, ressources and pop if you will, if it would even remotely mirror a useful arty unit, which it does not.

And dont tell me you have to leave it as it is because it is a base unit. Noone requested it to be a base unit, I would happiliy build it outside my base with RE for a cost, if it was useful.

One flame motor or stuka can easily kill a motor pit..and well pretty much anything for the british.

In theory Royal Artillery Regiment would be a perfect choice to smash LeiG and defense walls. In practice, it fails miserably..

+1.

and you do have arty. ostheer doesnt get tiger and elefant and osttruppen and mortar ht and ... and ... and ... non doctrinal. if brits can get a t0 light vehicle, why doesn't ostheer get t0 paks or schrecks? "oh but you have fausts!" - yeah, if you're stupid enough to drive your bren into grens AND lose it afterwards because you sent it in unsupported, maybe you deserve to lose it. just like with emplacements etc. if you dont support it, you deserve to lose it. the base arty is, i admit, rather ineffective. but also inexpensive. and dropping that arty does force the enemy to reposition at the very least.

or, you know what... sure, you can get a mobile mortar... but instead you can't build centaur. or churchill.

every faction has some strengths and weaknesses. if you take away the weaknesses, you are left with only strengths... which is never good for balance.


edit: or, to pick up a recent thread: EVERY OTHER faction gets free green cover, why not ostheer?
i'm fairly certain that if you argue for brit indirect fire, you also argue against ostheer green cover. so whenever you ask yourself why brits don't have great non-doctrinal indirect fire, ask yourself why ostheer doesn't have green cover... same reason.

Cause arty is the only weakness of brits...

British advantage over other factions going royal artillery is almost continuous fire, you can call in so many strikes from different sources. Basically you can fire with 2 tommy sections for 45 muni each in rapid succession, then with Valentine or sniper, and you can fire off-map into fog of war.

If you control 2 munition points + half map you can fire almost non-stop.

I mean let be real if Relic makes the artillery stronger it would be OP as fuck. The only way it can be allowed to become stronger is if it will be forced to be on long enough cool-down.

np. give them 25pdr emplacement, remove bombing run and crocodiles. i was close to saying also remove commandos, but a glider was landed on one of my tellers... i liked that feeling :-)

wut? teller can destroy commandos glider?

If they made the mortar pit actually affordable this would solve a lot of issues. You should be able to drop an early mortar pit like the old vCoH brits.

Also what's up with the sexton, it's like an SU-76 barrage but with longer cooldown.