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JagdTiger and Elephant need counters

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Katitof
18 Sep 2015, 12:21 PM
#61
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Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Sep 2015, 12:16 PMYunohh


Overstatement much? ISU vs Ele is pretty close, depending who fires first. Though it usually goes in favour of the TD, (being a TANK DESTROYER, rather than multi-purpose assault gun) a well timed button, mark target or ZiS shot will turn it in favour of the ISU.

Or should I just agree by way of a hyperbole and insist that Germans get removed from the game?


Ele: 400 armor, 320 dmg, 440-360 penetration, 8-9 reload.
ISU: 310 armor, 240 dmg, 260-200 penetration, 9-11 reload.

Its as one sided fight as it can get.
You're delusional to think ISU have any chance there.

I'm not saying it shouldn't like this, but you've made extremely stupid statement by saying there is anything close in that fight.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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mycalliope
18 Sep 2015, 13:11 PM
#62
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Posts: 721

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Sep 2015, 02:00 AMAlexzandvar
Considering the massive buffs to Allied late game that have already happened I don't really think we need to twist the knife harder for Axis right now.


basically this...it would matter alexander because all u see on forums are allies fanboys so relic under pressure just makes the changes for allies favour....because you know relic can't think for themselves allied fanboys have succeeded in acheiving their goal of nerfing axis hard.
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mycalliope
18 Sep 2015, 13:34 PM
#63
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Posts: 721

okay so they got more indirect nerfed by focus sight removed...jadtiger sill expensive as fuck so point in the cost decrease....and allied fnaobys devoid of any logic still complaining it's the sturmtiger and cas situation all over again nobody cared for several months and then all of a sudden forum kept popping of them being op...let me guess jadtiger and elefant will get nerfs next patch...might as well call the game now company of axis nerf 2.0......:foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone:
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Ace of Swords
18 Sep 2015, 14:19 PM
#64
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Posts: 219

You barely see this units in team games right now and I don't think I've ever seen one in 1v1, they very niche and very easy to counter unless you lost the game beforehand and now that allied infantry can easily stand up and beat axis infatry you can trade mediums even more favorably for jt/ele.
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Iron Emperor
18 Sep 2015, 14:22 PM
#65
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Posts: 1653

This is getting more of a whine post than something that benefits the subject
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Leodot
18 Sep 2015, 14:54 PM
#66
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Posts: 254

I think the problem here is the understanding of "counter".

Each faction has its own counter but it is rather an tank. It is more a faction design. e.g. US who are great with airborn. If US wants to counter a JT or an Ele they should use combined armes, than an heavy tank.

So it is with USSR and UKF and so on.

Sure JT is a counter to ISU but USSR has it own to counter a JT but not a tank.
So the question is leading all in the wrong direction. e.g. tank vs tank discussion.

Just use the faction design. Kappa

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Intelligence209
18 Sep 2015, 14:54 PM
#67
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Posts: 1124

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Sep 2015, 12:21 PMKatitof


Ele: 400 armor, 320 dmg, 440-360 penetration, 8-9 reload.
ISU: 310 armor, 240 dmg, 260-200 penetration, 9-11 reload.

Its as one sided fight as it can get.
You're delusional to think ISU have any chance there.

I'm not saying it shouldn't like this, but you've made extremely stupid statement by saying there is anything close in that fight.


You live in a vacuum world and a world on paper. Go ahead and tell me how many infantry kills a JT or elephant will have at the end of the game. Go ahead and tell me how the elephant can one shot AT guns. It's never a elephant vs. Isu152. No there are AT guns, flanks, mines and such to factor. Late vet infantry win games, Isu152 wipes them. (not as much but it still happens as it should) fun facts bro but na try again
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Intelligence209
18 Sep 2015, 14:58 PM
#68
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Posts: 1124

@Katiof What the isu152 lacks in AT. It makes up in reliable AI as well as vehicle stunning. Yes it doesn't wipe 1 squad per a shot fired like how it used to. But It still reliably does wipe.
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Katitof
18 Sep 2015, 15:04 PM
#69
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Sep 2015, 14:58 PMIntelligence209
@Katiof What the isu152 lacks in AT. It makes up in reliable AI as well as vehicle stunning. Yes it doesn't wipe 1 squad per a shot fired like how it used to. But It still reliably does wipe.

You've completely missed the point.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Banillo
18 Sep 2015, 15:17 PM
#70
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Posts: 134

how does mark target influence the isu vs elephant?
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broodwarjc
18 Sep 2015, 15:48 PM
#71
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Posts: 824

So reduce ISU AI ability to increases its AT? Does that sound reasonable?

Or will all the Soviet fanboys come crying that they can't have a One-shot everything unit again?
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Rekkettenn
18 Sep 2015, 16:06 PM
#72
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Posts: 76

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Sep 2015, 06:27 AMNorthWeapon


Shouldn't AT guns be the kiss of death for all tanks? -_-


no, only for allied tanks.
axis should keep better units for same/slightly higher price than their counterparts.

your argument is invalid because of krupp steel.

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Hater
18 Sep 2015, 16:18 PM
#73
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Posts: 493

Used to kill JT with two t-34-76. It's so slow so while it rotates to one of them both shoot 'in the rear' of JT. Just use some support from mates to distract other units from your tanks. Moreover i believe it would be much easier with 'mark target'. And JT + Ferdi such a nice combo vs tbf.
mastered mode: 4v3
drops > mates > rng > pathfinding > ??? > skill
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Rollo
18 Sep 2015, 16:29 PM
#74
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Posts: 738

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Sep 2015, 16:06 PMRekkettenn


no, only for allied tanks.
axis should keep better units for same/slightly higher price than their counterparts.

your argument is invalid because of krupp steel.



Leyland steel>>>>>>>>>>>Krupp steel

Croc still eats up Paks
Click for depression

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CookiezNcreem
18 Sep 2015, 16:30 PM
#75
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Counter to these units is crippling the enemy before they come(allies are good at this in many ways),and then using infantry based solutions instead of buying more vehicles when they do come,so they are a massive chunk of popcap and anti tank into one unit. Elefant has a scary sounding and looking gun,but it wont hurt your infantry.

You can also be clever,use your armor behind and around shot blockers.



If you're fighting a well composed army,with supporting armor,command tanks and mines,and etc,on TOP of an elefant? well then well,they beat you. it is what it is.

I can count on my hand the amount of times in the past year that a JT/ELE won the game for my opponent. Honestly usually them buying it is the thing that allows a comeback. Since I love m10s. And m10s,love swarming :foreveralone:


BTW IM talking 2v2 here..which honestly, these units are quite the nonfactor 90% of the time. Crossing in the woods,maybe minsk they can be quite OP. But then again I veto those maps religously.


for 3v3 and 4v4, countering is #TeamWork
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Rekkettenn
18 Sep 2015, 16:40 PM
#76
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Posts: 76

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Sep 2015, 16:29 PMRollo


Leyland steel>>>>>>>>>>>Krupp steel

Croc still eats up Paks


yes thats why axis are so weak and relic should buff axis now
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TaurusBully
18 Sep 2015, 16:41 PM
#77
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Posts: 89

They are fine as it is.

Making arty kill it would break the game.

Think.

Arty kills paks, inf and now the TD?

No.
Team game player.

All factions Player.
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Rollo
18 Sep 2015, 16:42 PM
#78
avatar of Rollo

Posts: 738

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Sep 2015, 16:40 PMRekkettenn


yes thats why axis are so weak and relic should buff axis now


Axis early game is gimped along with brits, but I like to think the lategame for all factions is relatively balanced apart from a few odd units.
Click for depression

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pigsoup
18 Sep 2015, 16:45 PM
#79
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Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Sep 2015, 07:10 AMKatitof


That massive vet3 rifle bonus which is irrelevant vs armor, that massive 105-135 penetration buff! Now heavies and super heavies need to live in fear from imba sherman! That overpowering 80 hp buff for EZ8!

All the UKF buffs with reduced hp, effectiveness and scatter for their late game units!

That massive soviet late game buff by taking away focus vision from ISU and even less relevant con survivability buff!

Ohh yea, massive late game buffs to allies, peace agreements in Syria and medium hawaian pizza for everyone!

Do you also believe in fairies?


i totally agree with katitof here. Hawaian pizza does suck and damn those who like hawaians.
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Rekkettenn
18 Sep 2015, 16:48 PM
#80
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Posts: 76

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Sep 2015, 16:42 PMRollo


Axis early game is gimped along with brits, but I like to think the lategame for all factions is relatively balanced apart from a few odd units.


yes i agree with german weak early game but relic should have look at it, because germans were superior at blitzkrieg and i think they should have slight advantage from early game because since this patch us force have best infantery cheapest tanks awesome weapon upgrades and just can just overrun you with cheap sherman tanks while germans only have 1 panther lol and sherman beeing buffed on top of that.
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