Balance Preview Update 09/08/2015

the new delay makes it worse that was my point so a little increase in damage is required to compensate now the stagger time give player more opportunity to move there units on top of the 1.5 second delay nerf it got......its like putting a silver spoon in the mouth of allies...they should be punished if they cant keep up micro after all these changes

Overpowered ability was nerfed then?

I'd call that balance!

Stay in place=get rekt.
Move=safe.

Micro=good.
No micro=lost vehicle.

This is how it works. Problem?

This is purely from a historical perspective:

The T-34/76 tank was the best tank of WW2, and according to some lists, even the best tank of all times. This tank made a great impression even on Heinz Guderian. Therefore I do not understand why this historical fact is not reflected in the game. I don't expect to see so much of this tank in the game, if it is placed in T4 and has a population cap of 10.

The T-34/76 was the best tank in the world, in 1941. It's armour could deflect nearly everything the Germans had en masse. Pak 36, Pak 38, Panzer III 36mm Guns, Panzer III 50mm Guns, Panzer IV 75mm Infantry Support Guns. Only the Pak 40 and Flak 88 could penetrate it at decent range. It could also penetrate the Panzer III and Panzer IV Tanks.

In 1942 the Germans altered the Panzer IV significantly, doubling its armour and giving it a Pak 40 based gun. The T-34/76 had lost it's advantages against them. And obviously the Tiger I had no trouble with the T-34/76.

The T-34/85 didn't improve the armour situation as far as I know, it just allowed the T-34 to engage on equal footing with the Panzer IV, and Tiger I if it was close enough.

Overpowered ability was nerfed then?

I'd call that balance!

Stay in place=get rekt.
Move=safe.

Micro=good.
No micro=lost vehicle.

This is how it works. Problem?

lol if that is your reasoning then why were you complaining about CAS earlier..??? lol contradicting your own point and we are done here folks

lol if that is your reasoning then why were you complaining about CAS earlier..??? lol contradicting your own point and we are done here folks

Complaining?
It was overpowered doctrine.
It gave you no time to react.

It got nerfed.

Everyone sane said its overpowered.

Loitering SCAS was also overpowered, everyone and their dog knew it, it got nerfed.

I don't see any contradictions in what I've said earlier, because there are none.

You're grasping at straws here.

so the Wasp carrier damage was nerfed by 50%... then Relic decided that wasn't enough, and cut it in half AGAIN.. how is this unit going to be worth anything? you can't even repair the thing until vet 1. Bye Bren carrier.

Complaining?
It was overpowered doctrine.
It gave you no time to react.

It got nerfed.

Everyone sane said its overpowered.

Loitering SCAS was also overpowered, everyone and their dog knew it, it got nerfed.

I don't see any contradictions in what I've said earlier, because there are none.

You're grasping at straws here.

Stay in place=get rekt.
Move=safe.

Micro=good.
No micro=lost vehicle.


this was your point it totally supports the point that if you micro u can easily dodge cas..so thats ur contradcition alright got it

Secondly the cas has gotten another nerf in indriect from stagger time and two lwo damage planes which was not needed since players are not getting punished for not keeping up their micro and the player who reocns and places this strafes for muni is not being rewarded

But I can pretend that you don't exist, which will be for the best of this thread.

Great, guess we Can find some common ground afterall

so the Wasp carrier damage was nerfed by 50%... then Relic decided that wasn't enough, and cut it in half AGAIN.. how is this unit going to be worth anything? you can't even repair the thing until vet 1. Bye Bren carrier.

move repairs to vet 0 problem solved

Stay in place=get rekt.
Move=safe.

Micro=good.
No micro=lost vehicle.


this was your point it totally supports the point that if you micro u can easily dodge cas..so thats ur contradcition alright got it

Secondly the cas has gotten another nerf in indriect from stagger time and two lwo damage planes which was not needed since players are not getting punished for not keeping up their micro and the player who reocns and places this strafes for muni is not being rewarded

Even the best micro in the world won't help you if you don't have time to react.
No contradiction here.

CAS isn't affected with 2 planes, SCAS from other doctrines, the loitering plane is.

You don't even know which changes you're talking about and what they affect and you're trying to enforce your opinion here?

The T-34/76 was the best tank in the world, in 1941. It's armour could deflect nearly everything the Germans had en masse. Pak 36, Pak 38, Panzer III 36mm Guns, Panzer III 50mm Guns, Panzer IV 75mm Infantry Support Guns. Only the Pak 40 and Flak 88 could penetrate it at decent range. It could also penetrate the Panzer III and Panzer IV Tanks.

In 1942 the Germans altered the Panzer IV significantly, doubling its armour and giving it a Pak 40 based gun. The T-34/76 had lost it's advantages against them. And obviously the Tiger I had no trouble with the T-34/76.

The T-34/85 didn't improve the armour situation as far as I know, it just allowed the T-34 to engage on equal footing with the Panzer IV, and Tiger I if it was close enough.

Yes, I know this. I said that T-34/76 was the best tank because it was extremely cost efficient. The Russians beat the Axis by pure numbers. I know that the kill rate for the Tiger Battallions was 9850 kills and 1715 losses during the years 1942-1945. In Finland we say: "One Finn (in combat) is like 10 Russians, but what happens when the eleventh Russian soldier comes?"

Therefore I think that the Relic's answer was really funny: "T34 Population increased from 8 to 10 to prevent overwhelming numbers of the tank", because the Russians did just that and won the war.

King Tiger and Tiger Range buff is very questionable. Yes Heavies get countered by Tank Destroyers, that is literally the point of them. Super heavy anti everything tanks that can take a massive beating, wipe infantry and AT guns incredibly easily and dual medium tanks should be countered by Tank Destroyers which are incredibly fragile, slow and lack Anti infantry entirely. The only advantage is range, since penetration is not consistent enough for high DPS.

With such little range advantage what is even the point of Tank Destroyers? SU-85's and Jacksons are really going to need a buff if that change goes through, (which it shouldn't) they are already difficult to use as it is and very map dependant. Tank Destroyers should be countered by Infantry Based AT (Shreks, Bazookas and AT Guns) definitely not anti everything heavies.

Are all of you guys simply delusional ? Since when should 'cheap' tank destroyer be a hard counter to ultra expensive hi-end-game unit ? Especially all or nothing unit as OKW's KT ? Jacksons and SU's pretty much eat through everything to a Panther. They simply wreck any light vehicle, they hard counter any medium tank with ease and you'd expect them to lock out the Tigers completely as well ? Which in fact - they pretty much do, and no 5 additional range would change that. It can only be additional reward for actually managing to ambush, or flank the TD's with slumbering ultra-slow Heavy tank for possibility of that one additional shot, which in my experience usually KT's don't get to take. What about potent Allied heavy mediums ? Like they don't exist, any one of them (E8, T34/85 and now even Comet) wins against Tiger 1vs1, and your babbling about soloing the whole frontlines with one Tiger

afterall, look at the ingame description of the KT, weak against "MASSED" AT units, and after the armor nerf, even that's a fantasy.

I dare any of you biasoz, to try and play with sedated KT, against the double Jackson player with half a brain, then come back to report.

The T-34/85 didn't improve the armour situation as far as I know, it just allowed the T-34 to engage on equal footing with the Panzer IV, and Tiger I if it was close enough.

Same hull, but turret armor was increased from 45/45/45 to 90/75/52 with more streamlined angles for front and same thick of mask - 40mm.

Great, guess we Can find some common ground afterall

Why are you still here?

For Relic:

Please look at Soviet sniper (bring it more in line with Ost sniper)
Please nerf Ost sniper
MG42 still needs a small nerf
Please fix Vickers range bug, and consider slight nerf to gun
Fix all camo bugs on OKW units (retreating units cloaking, insta cloak JPIV)
Reduce Sturmtrooper cost
Either change vet on HT's or provide a use for the vet they earn when upgraded
Increase accuracy on IS-2 (or just leave heavies alone entirely)
Fix vet 1 on all Soviet tanks (cap point, really unnecessary)
For now consider just moving some of the bonuses from vet 1 to vet 2
Allow Brit sniper to cloak much faster before first shot
Reduce Brit section vet bonuses slightly, reduce total cost of squad
Stuka zu Fuss should get creeping barrage as vet level, not as default
Fix damage from mortar HT inc strike against emplacements
Please fix OKW AA HT a-move set up bug
Please examine ISG, weapon appears far too good for limited user input. Place and forget.
JT is still very difficult to kill in team games, please consider any buffs to this unit carefully.
Fix maxim and DSHK retreat, where both teams drop gun on move (This should be long removed)
Shreks appear highly capable of sniping infantry models, please consider lowering AoE or accuracy.
USF tanks still very vulnerable to bad pathing (for units designed to move quickly this is a death sentence)
USF AT gun needs to be able to penetrate reliably
USF tier unlocks should not consume pop cap, that should be a player choice
USF paradropped AT guns and MG's are too expensive, please reduce their cost slightly

I have had a lot of missing command bugs recently, I order a command and units do not do anything. You can check this with mg teams and weapon teams. Frequently I will tell them to set up and then come back and they are idling in the unsetup position.
Grenade delay bugs, and not throwing bugs need to be taken care of (this needs to be over).
Schwer HQ is still firing outside of its marked range
The range is also far too long, please reduce it or make gun an upgrade to building.

Brit off map is questionably strong, much of these abilities are so overkill its is crazy. Reduce their cost and effectiveness
Buff Sexton...a lot

Remove TWP from game, replace with another crit ability
German sniper Stun round does not always stun, frequently it just says stun but units return fire. Very problematic against MG's

There is a reason why Airbourne is the only viable commander for USF in team games. You can't play without P47.

wrong

Developers care.

and it will obviously continue to "fascinate" you, since you obviously lack some of the basic cognitive capabilities. If the product is in such broken state that even "one" hc fan is willing to give up on it, then you better believe it - it's gonna be loosing casual customerbase very soon, and very fast. It's the law of probability - where's there's one random forum guy, there are hundreds more alike, that simply don't care enough to be vocal about it, and they're indifferently moving to something else. So I guess Relic should care, and they obviously do - considering the latest balance attempts. They have all the numbers they need, and nothing your allied lobbying machine type and retype here isn't gonna change the statistics. Not that it's a good thing, but it is a fact that majority of the CoH playerbase has always leaned toward Axis, and if they (Relic) left the game in this state (post British launch) for much longer, in 6 months time there would be 25 people left playing the game. Which would be very bad for business.

Yea no. The game always has gone through periods of having OP allies in a cycle and axis op in a cycle. It has survived fine and will continue to do so. Check steamcharts yourself.

Get over yourself.

Are all of you guys simply delusional ? Since when should 'cheap' tank destroyer be a hard counter to ultra expensive hi-end-game unit ? Especially all or nothing unit as OKW's KT ? Jacksons and SU's pretty much eat through everything to a Panther. They simply wreck any light vehicle, they hard counter any medium tank with ease and you'd expect them to lock out the Tigers completely as well ? Which in fact - they pretty much do, and no 5 additional range would change that. It can only be additional reward for actually managing to ambush, or flank the TD's with slumbering ultra-slow Heavy tank for possibility of that one additional shot, which in my experience usually KT's don't get to take. What about potent Allied heavy mediums ? Like they don't exist, any one of them (E8, T34/85 and now even Comet) wins against Tiger 1vs1, and your babbling about soloing the whole frontlines with one Tiger

afterall, look at the ingame description of the KT, weak against "MASSED" AT units, and after the armor nerf, even that's a fantasy.

I dare any of you biasoz, to try and play with sedated KT, against the double Jackson player with half a brain, then come back to report.

I like how you call out other people for being biased when you are quite clearly biased yourself.

Are all of you guys simply delusional ? Since when should 'cheap' tank destroyer be a hard counter to ultra expensive hi-end-game unit ? Especially all or nothing unit as OKW's KT ? Jacksons and SU's pretty much eat through everything to a Panther. They simply wreck any light vehicle, they hard counter any medium tank with ease and you'd expect them to lock out the Tigers completely as well ? Which in fact - they pretty much do, and no 5 additional range would change that. It can only be additional reward for actually managing to ambush, or flank the TD's with slumbering ultra-slow Heavy tank for possibility of that one additional shot, which in my experience usually KT's don't get to take. What about potent Allied heavy mediums ? Like they don't exist, any one of them (E8, T34/85 and now even Comet) wins against Tiger 1vs1, and your babbling about soloing the whole frontlines with one Tiger

afterall, look at the ingame description of the KT, weak against "MASSED" AT units, and after the armor nerf, even that's a fantasy.

I dare any of you biasoz, to try and play with sedated KT, against the double Jackson player with half a brain, then come back to report.

One E8 beats a tiger.... Yea OK buddy.

hell's teeth this thread has gone truly over the edge... It's times like these I'm glad I don't work at Relic, have to wade through the mire of shitposting and tit-for-tat asshattery that this topic has become.

But anyway, the new update said something about removing hollow point ability from the ISG for being to clumsy but could someone tell me how the replacement stat changes will affect the units performance?

Rwlic please remove the munition ability from cas its so broken thank-you

You're also likely to use that ability Red Bear