Stormtroopers less then Partisans

Thats exactly why nobody gives a shit about Stormtroopers, their entire existence is built around a dumb gimmick. Fallsch, JLI, and Partisans all jump out of buildings fully equipped (JLI even cost almost the same as Storms) while Storms don't.

Ambient Building spawn units all come out with upgrades because they are supposed to operate behind enemy lines independent off support, what is the point of an infiltration squad that forgot it's weapons at home?

I agree that it is a dumb gimmick. But since that gimmick happens to be the most powerful ability in the game, stormtroopers need no buffs. If they make closing the pocket any easier than it already is, then it would just be OP.

I would like to see close the pocket removed and stormtroopers actually made useful or in a different commander.

2. You are bitching because stormtroopers aren't getting buffed.

Stormtrooper's don't need a "buff" just up their cost and make them come out with the StG's (or at least scoped G43s). Right now they suffer from being expensive and be stuck in an gimmick doctrine which is the kiss of death for any unit.

3. It isn't illogical patriotism. As I have consistently said, Stormtroopers are to be used in conjunction with the single most powerful commander ability in the game, the only ability that has the power to destroy four armies at one time (which I have seen it do, was pretty awesome). Because of this, stormtroopers do not need any kind of buffs.

The fact something in 1 in a million times works does not mean it's the most powerful thing ever. Every competitive player would rather take something he knows will work over a map dependent gamble.

TLDR: Close the pocket is hard to pull off, buffing stormtroopers would make that easier, which is a bad thing.

Considering Encirclement is one of the least used and most unpopular Ostheer commanders I think it's safe to say it's not that great. Yeah if you pull of a highly coordinated wombo combo it's cool but 99% of the time you will just be wasting a commander slot.

I agree that it is a dumb gimmick. But since that gimmick happens to be the most powerful ability in the game, stormtroopers need no buffs. If they make closing the pocket any easier than it already is, then it would just be OP.

I assume you haven't seen many of the British commander abilities yet.

I would like to see close the pocket removed and stormtroopers actually made useful or in a different commander.

Why not just rework Storms and if it's broken fix it then? Because you are making a lot of assumptions here.

1. I will need you to explain this sentence better, I am having a difficult time understanding your english. "You're just stubborn to admit that a German unit do worth caring as soviet one."

2. You are bitching because stormtroopers aren't getting buffed.

3. It isn't illogical patriotism. As I have consistently said, Stormtroopers are to be used in conjunction with the single most powerful commander ability in the game, the only ability that has the power to destroy four armies at one time (which I have seen it do, was pretty awesome). Because of this, stormtroopers do not need any kind of buffs.

If that doctrine did not have close the pocket, then I would be all for making stormtroopers stronger. But since their main purpose is to sneakily decap a rear territory so that you can wipe an entire army in one click, they don't need to be stronger. If they could spawn and easily clear out whatever might be around a territory point, then Encirclement doctrine would be batshit OP.

TLDR: Close the pocket is hard to pull off, buffing stormtroopers would make that easier, which is a bad thing.

1.It needs same love like partisans. Sorry about that. It's not my native language.
2.
3. Buff does not only have one method to make it happen. Cost buff is also buff.
You can't say that's a bad way to buff.

And one cool skill does not mean the whole doctrine perform well.
It's treated kinda meh right now because it's really hard to perform the last skill.
If you use sprint before infiltration and capping, you will see caches around the flags.
Even if your fist commander skill used in the game is dispatiching stormtroopers, one fail will mean zero future possibility for Close the Pocket. Other two skills are same.
Another joke about this doctrine is cause by commander pools being shown in the loading screen. Anyone can easily distinguish encirclemnet doctrine by looking at that stupid goggles. Once the Allies player figure, not using any commander skill does not give the opponent any confusion.
Already the doctrine itself is a joke because close the pocket skill itself is absurd,(too strong but too hard to achieve) and it'll not work on good AT plyers game or 1vs1 game.
Now those are not enough reason to reconsider about this unit and the doctrine?
We can let this trollcirclement skill to maintain current state right now, but at least we can improve this overpriced unit to help a little bit.

Stormtrooper's don't need a "buff" just up their cost and make them come out with the StG's (or at least scoped G43s). Right now they suffer from being expensive and be stuck in an gimmick doctrine which is the kiss of death for any unit.



The fact something in 1 in a million times works does not mean it's the most powerful thing ever. Every competitive player would rather take something he knows will work over a map dependent gamble.



Considering Encirclement is one of the least used and most unpopular Ostheer commanders I think it's safe to say it's not that great. Yeah if you pull of a highly coordinated wombo combo it's cool but 99% of the time you will just be wasting a commander slot.



I assume you haven't seen many of the British commander abilities yet.



Why not just rework Storms and if it's broken fix it then? Because you are making a lot of assumptions here.

1. That's a buff. Even though the 120mm mortar was made cheaper it was still a nerf.

2. IT is the most powerful ability in the game. By brit ability I assume you mean the carpet bombing? A small area of a effect that takes ages to get there. If it sent a bomber to each of your units everywhere on the map then it would be a valid comparison of what close the pocket can do.

3. So don't use it. Lots of shit commanders. And making stormtroopers better wouldn't make this anymore attractive when there are other commanders that are better. This is clearly a gimmick doctrine.

4. Assuming a reasonable outcome is better than making up stuff out of thin air.

1.It needs same love like partisans. Sorry about that. It's not my native language.
2.
3. Buff does not only have one method to make it happen. Cost buff is also buff.
You can't say that's a bad way to buff.

And one cool skill does not mean the whole doctrine perform well.
It's treated kinda meh right now because it's really hard to perform the last skill.
If you use sprint before infiltration and capping, you will see caches around the flags.
Even if your fist commander skill used in the game is dispatiching stormtroopers, one fail will mean zero future possibility for Close the Pocket. Other two skills are same.
Another joke about this doctrine is cause by commander pools being shown in the loading screen. Anyone can easily distinguish encirclemnet doctrine by looking at that stupid goggles. Once the Allies player figure, not using any commander skill does not give the opponent any confusion.
Already the doctrine itself is a joke because close the pocket skill itself is absurd,(too strong but too hard to achieve) and it'll not work on good AT plyers game or 1vs1 game.
Now those are not enough reason to reconsider about this unit and the doctrine?
We can let this trollcirclement skill to maintain current state right now, but at least we can improve this overpriced unit to help a little bit.

Totally understandable. I'm awful at foreign language.

I don't disagree with what you are saying. Stormtroopers are certainly a disappointment. But as long as they are attached to trollcirclement (a good name I will use that from now on) then I don't see a need to buff them. As stated elsewhere I would like to see them incorporated into another commander, then I would be ok with buffing them.

Totally understandable. I'm awful at foreign language.

I don't disagree with what you are saying. Stormtroopers are certainly a disappointment. But as long as they are attached to trollcirclement (a good name I will use that from now on) then I don't see a need to buff them. As stated elsewhere I would like to see them incorporated into another commander, then I would be ok with buffing them.

How about redesigning the whole doctrine, then?

I paid for this gimmick doctrine and I don't want it to be wasted

I know how to use them. I wrote up there.
But when I read how Relic care about Partisans,(patch note for preview mod) i just felt to speak this out.

It's just extremely inefficient for 'behind the lines' unit.
Any unit coming through building is more efficient than this unit.

I would have to disagree with this i'm afraid. The ability to have a unit that can stealth instantly and with bundle grenade is a massive benefit to capping behind the lines and is essential to using the final ability in the commander tree. I agree the unit is useless at first in combat compared to it's rivals but once you've brought it back to base and upgraded it it's very versatile on the battlefield.

It's advantage over any other units is ghost capping. If you could see it whilst it was capping it would be useless but down to having that stealth straight away i'd say it's one of the most cunning units that can be spawned. It's literally undetectable when used correctly.

I would have to disagree with this i'm afraid. The ability to have a unit that can stealth instantly and with bundle grenade is a massive benefit to capping behind the lines and is essential to using the final ability in the commander tree. I agree the unit is useless at first in combat compared to it's rivals but once you've brought it back to base and upgraded it it's very versatile on the battlefield.

It's advantage over any other units is ghost capping. If you could see it whilst it was capping it would be useless but down to having that stealth straight away i'd say it's one of the most cunning units that can be spawned. It's literally undetectable when used correctly.

I wonder you saw the whole conversations between me and Robbie.

Of course it works good after upgrades and withdraws.
But the problem is... the cost inefficiency. MP wise and muni wise.

And the whole doctrine itself is gimmick. Please look at the conversations for more details.

I wonder you saw the whole conversations between me and Robbie.

Of course it works good after upgrades and withdraws.
But the problem is... the cost inefficiency. MP wise and muni wise.

And the whole doctrine itself is gimmick. Please look at the conversations for more details.

From looking through the convo it looks like it boils down to you wanting an infiltration shock unit. Your chosen candidate is storms, and you want them changed to fill this role, citing partisan AI power as justification.

You're ignoring the core purpose of storms or how they fit into their doctrine as a whole. Seems you want the commander bent to fulfil your personal requirements, which centre around storms, with the rest as a 'nice to have,' as the rest of it is too "gimmicky" (read: hard) to use.

Isn't gonna happen. If you want partisans then play soviets. If you want a clever, long-term strategic planning unit play Ost with encirclement.

How about StG upgrade to 60 munitions with the option to upgrade when not in territory?

I wonder you saw the whole conversations between me and Robbie.

Of course it works good after upgrades and withdraws.
But the problem is... the cost inefficiency. MP wise and muni wise.

And the whole doctrine itself is gimmick. Please look at the conversations for more details.

I read your conversation and I understand what you are saying about the commander being 'gimmicky'.

My point is that when you decide to use this commander, this is a unit that benefits the doctrine very well. It's not an out of place unit in my opinion. It fits perfectly with this commander when you choose to use it.

I agree the STG upgrade is 'pricey'. But a 4 man ghost capping squad, spawnable from buildings is definitely worth 340.

It would seem in my opinion that for 100 munitions the STG's should be stronger. But I don't think for 1 second they should arrive with these weapons or be any cheaper than they are currently.

stormless commenting on stromtroopers, oh the irony

at this point, i would like to make a comment that is not offtopic, but unfortunately i dont have this commander. gg wp relic.

oh maybe i can add something: according to the german wikipedia, sturmtruppen were used (in WW1 )to attack weak positions, so one could say, that spawning them in a building behind a lonely ATgun would be fine at least lorewise

If I may shed some light here.

The main benefit of the unit isn't to spring them out of a building and then upgrade them and wait. You should be using these units for stealth capping behind the lines etc. Or trying to activate a close the pocket ability. The upgrades are really something that should be upgraded after their initial entrance to the battlefield.

I would actually recommend if you are planning on high dps running units you should use Panzer Grenadiers. The Stormtroopers are really just an advanced capping and stealth unit which can benefit you later of if you can afford upgrade and abilities.

This OP, exactly this.

Maby figure out the role of a unit instead of trying to change it into a role you wish it to be.

Make Storms spawn with g43s that have a profile similar to the M1 Garand.

Just give them Ober Kar 98's.

stormless commenting on stromtroopers, oh the irony

I also wrote the guide for this commander in the 'guides' section... so I know it quite well haha.

But yes.. doesn't quite hit my name does it

Stormtroopers are trash gimmick units. 100 muni assault rifles wow. There is a reason nobody plays this doctrine.

Would it really be so dangerous for Stormtroopers to simply spawn with regular G43 rifles instead of Kar98s? It'd be a nice halfway point, making them more immediately viable in combat while still giving them the option for (discounted?) StGs to further improve their AI capabilities.

G43s stock would also make the panzerschrek upgrade almost worth a damn, as they wouldn't lose all hope of fighting against other infantry units.

Would it really be so dangerous for Stormtroopers to simply spawn with regular G43 rifles instead of Kar98s? It'd be a nice halfway point, making them more immediately viable in combat while still giving them the option for (discounted?) StGs to further improve their AI capabilities.

G43s stock would also make the panzerschrek upgrade almost worth a damn, as they wouldn't lose all hope of fighting against other infantry units.

Thank you for replying this dying topic

Yeah, that would help. Just too much similar units out there though.
Anyway, current armament or STG upgrade cost is pathetic, making this commander more undesirable.

This OP, exactly this.

Maby figure out the role of a unit instead of trying to change it into a role you wish it to be.

Did you even read the whole conversation between Robbie and I?
Oh, you never played encirclement doctrine on ladder your own. Never mind