Buff Conscript PPSh-41 long range to match Mosin DPS

Jump back to quoted post29 Aug 2015, 20:29 PMBasilone

Zero tactical tradeoff, like everything else I listed.

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2015, 01:42 AMFlying Dustbin

IMO PPSH upgrade should be a default thing. Would be a nice contrast to the Gren LMG, with conscripts being aggressive up close with PPSHs and Molotovs and Grens sitting at range with their LMGs and Rifle 'nades.

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2015, 01:28 AMJaedrik

I believe you're misunderstanding my statement.
By opportunity cost, I mean all the other things you could be doing with the munitions.

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2015, 05:39 AMNuclear Arbitor

that's insignificant though as literally everything in the game has that (faction choice, mp/fuel/mun, timing choices, etc.).

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2015, 06:30 AMRMMLz

I would like to see something like SVT aor even AVT upgrade as a non-doc upgrade for Cons, but not Penals' SVTs, something that deal damage, not a peashooter.

But anyway, Cons must scale better (duh), and a very important part of it is non doctrinal upgrades. Fresh Grens gain vet fast if you call them late game, but good luck buying fresh units late game as Soviets.

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2015, 08:20 AMBurts

My suggestion is to give the cons 4 PPSH, but also give cons some received accuracy with the upgrade like 0.8 to help them close the gap

Shocks 100% 35 32 1.66 1.5 armor
Conscripts 108.7% 35 20 1
Guard/CE/Penal 100% 35 27/21/22 1

Ostheer:
Pioneers 100% 42 25 1.25
Grenadiers 91% 35 30 1.75
Assault gren 100% 35 28 1.4
PGrens 80% 35 42 2
Ostruppen 125% 35 16 0.833 1 sec reinforce
Stormtroopers 75% 35 33 2.25

USF:
Rifle/Lieut/Capt 97% 35 28/25/30 1.4/1.5/1.5
RE 100% 35 20 1
Pathfinder 100% 50 37 2
Paratrooper 100% 35 28 1.5
AE 100% 35 32 1.75 ignore snow movement penalties

OKW:
Volksgrenadier 100% 35 23 1.2
Pfusilier 100% 35 24 1.166
Sturmpio 87% 35 32 2 ignore snow movement penalties
Obersoldaten 70% 35 50 2.5
Jaeger 80% 50 37 2
Fallschirm 87% 35 47 2.5

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2015, 08:26 AMAlexzandvar

This would give them better received accuracy then Grens, Sturms, Fallsch, and the same received accuracy as Pgrens and JLI. At vet 3 they would have one of the best received accuracy values in the game.

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2015, 08:26 AMAlexzandvar

This would give them better received accuracy then Grens, Sturms, Fallsch, and the same received accuracy as Pgrens and JLI. At vet 3 they would have one of the best received accuracy values in the game.

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2015, 08:30 AMKatitof

Short range only infantry with short range upgrade would have better rec acc then dedicated long range infantry and mid range infantry with incomparably better weapons, so that short range infantry with short range upgrade wouldn't be torn apart on approach and actually stand up long enough to deal damage with their weak weapons despite them being dedicated CQC doctrinal upgrade?

Who in his right mind would do that?

Oh, I know!

Anyone having a slightest clue on how balance works!

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2015, 08:37 AMBurts

\]


Keep in mind that cons have a base 1.087 accuracy modifier, so giving them a 0.8 would just mean


1.087 x 0.80 = 0.87


Alternitavely you can just buff the DPS of the con PPSH to match shock troop levels, or slightly worse than that.


But it's pretty clear that con ppsh upgrade is a huge waste and needs a buff.

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2015, 08:39 AMAlexzandvar

I don't think you understand the implications of a squad with 6 models while having a received accuracy value at Vet 3 that would make high vet JLI blush. Like recieved accuracy works like this; it's really effective versus rifled slow firing units (hint: this is what most Axis units use) and not really all that powerful versus rapid fire weapons (which is a very large part of why LMG's are insanely good).

Yes obviously with PPSh's they wouldn't be doing a whole lot at range but they would be terrifying on urban maps and be able to stand up to fairly withering fire along with cheap reinforcing. Would be a fairly problematic combination.

There have been very good suggestions in this thread like making it a global upgrade or simply adding more to the squad to make it punch harder but giving Conscripts better durability than 320 - 440 MP units for 60 munitions is really silly.

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2015, 08:37 AMBurts

Keep in mind that cons have a base 1.087 accuracy modifier, so giving them a 0.8 would just mean


1.087 x 0.80 = 0.87

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2015, 08:43 AMKatitof

This means that your claim is wrong.

The way you worded it made it sound like it would change their received accuracy to .8, since that's how it's worked in the unit files (in target size basically). But still it would give them better received accuracy than Grens and the same received accuracy as Sturms (320 MP) and Fallsch (440 MP).

Add on top of that -23% received accuracy at vet 3 and they would have better received accuracy than vet 0 Obers.

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2015, 08:43 AMKatitof

This means that your claim is wrong.

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2015, 08:47 AMAlexzandvar

It's currently 4:44 AM here. So yeah sorry if my reading skills aren't up to snuff.