Bring back the SdKfz 221 Scout Car

You want to nerf Ostheer's only light vehicle that can chip the paint on other faction's light vehicles?

And buff its armour/effectiveness vs. infantry.

And buff its armour/effectiveness vs. infantry.

I dunno, they kinda already have the MG 42, Sniper, Mortar, Panzergreandiers, and Flamethrower Half-Track for that.

i disagree the 222 is now a fine option for Ostheer early game. That little cost increase could do nothing to deter me from using it
I rather spend the 60 munis on LMG or flamers

What this guy said +1

IMO scout car should have been primarily just that- a car that scouts. At least that way you don't have the balance headache of trying to make it a viable combat unit without competing against other anti-infantry units. Cloaking could give it a unique character that no vehicle besides OKW tanks with Cautious Movement would have. It would then at least somewhat compensate for not being a terribly worthwhile scaling unit- everyone could use a set of eyes and ears after all.

IMO scout car should have been primarily just that- a car that scouts.

It's Leichter Panzerspähwagen, or in English, Light Armoured Scout Car. That said, most Scouting units have secondary purposes. Even the M3A1 and WC 51 do transport as a secondary purpose, the Puma on the other hand can fight most light vehicles with ease.

My opinion was towards the unit, not the historical armoured reconnaissance car. The reason why they are called panzerspahwagen is because they work alongside armoured divisions to provide reconnaissance. By your logic, why don't panzergrenadiers have armour? It's because they are not "armoured grenadiers" but mechanized infantry that are organic components to an armoured division. In essence, you are using the word armoured wrong- it is them being part of an armoured force, not them being particularly armoured.

As for scouting and secondary purposes, M3A1 and WC51 end up having the transportation as a primary purpose, not secondary. If you want transportation as secondary, consider the Soviet/ Ostheer half track units. I don't represent all COH2 payers, but I find scouting tends to be end up being a very secondary consideration when people use those kinds of vehicles, rather than a primary one. After all hat's the use of a light unit that can't even toggle fire to stop plinking at a heavy tank, and naturally get raped by an AT gun that's even farther away?

In any case, survivability in the form of hiding can do much that survivability in the form of just better armour/ more HP does not. It does not, for instance, make the 222 scale late into the game in an improper fashion by also being able to withstand more hits from tanks. Cloaking however allows any weak unit to prevent being destroyed easily by any late-game unit. Some of the more effective scouting infantry (which coincidentally also possess other capabilities like sniping) also happen to have both cloak and long sight range.

I know this can't ever happen, but removing the autocannon, nerfing HP, and putting the 221 into T1 with Sniper going into T2 would be really cool. While your at it, Relic, give the unit more non-combat utility. Finally, rework Panzgrens Shreks into one each, for 75 muni, filling the anti light vehicle gap left by this change.

I know this can't ever happen, but removing the autocannon, nerfing HP, and putting the 221 into T1 with Sniper going into T2 would be really cool. While your at it, Relic, give the unit more non-combat utility. Finally, rework Panzgrens Shreks into one each, for 75 muni, filling the anti light vehicle gap left by this change.

So essentially the 222 from the game and replace it with combination AI / AT Infantry? Sounds awful to me. I'd rather the 222 get cost boosted and gain limited effectiveness against other Light Vehicles.

I just like the idea of every faction getting cheap scout vehicles early on in the match.

222s only real purpose as of now is to counter M20 anyway.

Hur?

Say you play on rails and steal, you have three squads, you retreat them, by the time you reach your base, pair of 222s will wipe them all.

Don't believe?
Play CoH1.

Say you play on rails and steal, you have three squads, you retreat them, by the time you reach your base, pair of 222s will wipe them all.

Don't believe?
Play CoH1.

Maybe with offensive vet three. And definitely not if there's a Greyhound or Stuart nearby.

My main gripe with this unit is that, in its CoH2 incarnation, it's borderline useless against anything that isn't an M20 or an M3. Considering that it's equipped with the same weapon as the Luchs, it should logically be at least somewhat effective against infantry.

I think this is the 222 MG bug we're talking about back in the day. Not sure if it still exists since the 221/2 aren't that great while chasing:

Epic fail

Say you play on rails and steal, you have three squads, you retreat them, by the time you reach your base, pair of 222s will wipe them all.

Don't believe?
Play CoH1.

I just played it yesterday, because my mate left his desktop in Germany.
Back in 2012, with the experience of all 4 factions with level 16 with 1v1 and 2v2, I don't agree.
NOT EVEN triple offensive vetted 222.

Seriously, if you have only 3 squad , assume Rifles, no mines, and PE have 2 vetted 222, something goes wrong?
Only noobs have problem with that 222 AC.

Before your nonsense shitting, you play COH1 first yourself. I welcome your challenge.

222s only real purpose as of now is to counter M20 anyway.

No. It can scout also. See snipers from further distance. Reverse out of MG fire without getting pinned. Wear a spotting scope for mega scouting. Stuff like that you know: scouting.

No. It can scout also. See snipers from further distance. Reverse out of MG fire without getting pinned. Wear a spotting scope for mega scouting. Stuff like that you know: scouting.

I don't think standing at the middle of the map, 80% of time not moving, should count as scouting.

Guys insisting on the 222 to be a cheap wheeled autocannon makes it really one dimensional. It should be a fast utility vehicle that can harass and maybe uncap points, like DOW2 Sentinel. Maybe a Mark Target like ability with vet. I don't want it to be a unit you only build to counter M3 and M20, I want it to be an actual scouting support unit.

I don't think standing at the middle of the map, 80% of time not moving, should count as scouting.

If you can see them before they see you=successful scouting.
Doesn't need to be mobile.

I don't think standing at the middle of the map, 80% of time not moving, should count as scouting.

Tell that to the turret guy that just spent $1000 on special binoculars. lol

One way to bring back 221: it's a OKW doctrinal unit, and like in CoH1, can secure sectors like a vet3 Major to prevent enemy capture. Not only does it provide OKW with a way to prevent enemy taking sectors without dealing with caches, but also encourages less infantry blobbing since you don't need to run around capping/ recapping; the enemy might easily destroy the 221 when they find it, but for larger sectors they might have to waste a lot of time hunting down a light car that can shoot back, giving valuable time to respond.

Might be imbalanced on 1v1 maps though.

I think it would be good to bring back 221, nerf it, remove the fuel cost, only manpower, add binocular upgrade.