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M4 Sherman needs cost decrease

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Alexzandvar
30 Jul 2015, 13:49 PM
#41
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jul 2015, 07:59 AMJorad
Dont bring Soviets into this and Sherman its not even near the PIV. The Sherman ammo switch can be a blessing and a curse when PIV doesnt really care at whom it fires.


My point was that generalists do worse than specialists. Yes the Sherman is worse at AI than the Scott and AT than the Jackson; that is how it should be. The PIV and Sherman (Ost versus M4 that is) are about equal in performance and timing which is how it should be IMO.
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OrionHunter88
30 Jul 2015, 15:39 PM
#42
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@Alexzandvar

What you are missing is that P4 has less threat of destruction due to USFs crappy AT options. If a Panzer 4 runs into "thick USF AT" as in 57mm and bazooka it can pop smoke an 9/10 times gets out of it. If a sherman runs into thick german AT, forget about it. That things not making it out.
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The Big Red 1
30 Jul 2015, 18:57 PM
#43
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jul 2015, 09:08 AMBlalord


Yes, you want the upgrade as not a "global upgrade", why not


as you said before upgrading to 76mm gun (the global version) in the original CoH meant that every sherman you produced would lose its anti-infantry capabilities. my proposition of upgrading the 76mm gun for the sherman (the individual version) individually for each tank means for example that you can have one sherman that excels in good vs tanks duty but average against infantry and the other sherman good vs infantry but average against tanks. here is an example that may explain what i am trying to say. mix and match is always a good idea i say

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The Big Red 1
18 Aug 2015, 03:42 AM
#44
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we still need a 76mm gun upgrade for the M4A3 sherman
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Mr. Someguy
18 Aug 2015, 20:38 PM
#45
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 03:42 AMThe Big Red 1
we still need a 76mm gun upgrade for the M4A3 Sherman


I don't think that was possible. Rather I'd like if the 76mm (same as Soviet Sherman) was buildable alongside the 75mm.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
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The Big Red 1
18 Aug 2015, 21:38 PM
#46
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 20:38 PMMr. Someguy


I don't think that was possible. Rather I'd like if the 76mm (same as Soviet Sherman) was buildable alongside the 75mm.

long as the option to get a sherman with a decent gun exists thats fine by me
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QueenRatchet123
18 Aug 2015, 21:44 PM
#47
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Sherman cost reduction? No. Major needs to be 90 fuel again.
jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2015, 14:01 PMJohnnyB

There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
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The Big Red 1
18 Aug 2015, 21:48 PM
#48
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 21:44 PMQueenRatchet123
Sherman cost reduction? No. Major needs to be 90 fuel again.

that too USF needs to have armor out quick cuz axis armor outclass them in a very bad way
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RetroInferno
19 Aug 2015, 01:18 AM
#49
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The tank would be fine if not because of his shitty vet bonuses; namely vet 2:

+20% Speed +20% rotation +30% accuracy +20% ac/de-celeration.

Rate of fire is lack luster with the sherman, and the only increase it gets is with the radio net ability ( 10% I think ) and vet 3 ( 20% )
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BeefSurge
19 Aug 2015, 01:24 AM
#50
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Sherman's scale exponentially and have awesome synergy with literally every unit in the USF arsenal.
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US3K
19 Aug 2015, 08:21 AM
#51
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Aug 2015, 01:24 AMBeefSurge
Sherman's scale exponentially and have awesome synergy with literally every unit in the USF arsenal.


P4s scale better, and synergize better. Sherman really scales quite poorly as its survivability and lethality doesn't scale up to keep pace with late game axis tanks and AT.

Axis tanks get armour, speed and already don't have to worry about not penning.

I support a minor cost decrease, or a priced upgrade. Mainly I'd like to see a pop-cost reduction
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Katitof
19 Aug 2015, 08:30 AM
#52
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Aug 2015, 01:24 AMBeefSurge
Sherman's scale exponentially and have awesome synergy with literally every unit in the USF arsenal.

P4 scales better.
Hell, T34 scales better.

USF tanks have absolutely worst scaling in game, which is sad considering they don't have any alternatives.

Also, regarding 'exponentially' scaling.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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__deleted__
19 Aug 2015, 09:33 AM
#53
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 21:48 PMThe Big Red 1

that too USF needs to have armor out quick cuz axis armor outclass them in a very bad way


This makes no sense. You want shermans to come quicker because Axis armor outclasses them. In other words, you want your sherman to come early so you don't need to fight Axis tanks and you can roflstomp opponents without fighting their tanks.

By now we understand that you are either trolling hard or really are a biased fanboy for USF. But please, stay within reason. This will only make it easier for us to endure your 'wisdom'.
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__deleted__
19 Aug 2015, 09:37 AM
#54
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Aug 2015, 08:30 AMKatitof

P4 scales better.
Hell, T34 scales better.

USF tanks have absolutely worst scaling in game, which is sad considering they don't have any alternatives.



This.

We don't need a cost reduction for Shermans or Major, we need Shermans that acutally scale well. If Relic wants the Sherman to come later in the game, which is fine by me, they should also give it some love with scaling. Right now, pretty much everything outclasses it.

Having said that, I agree with Katikof, every USF tank pretty much doesn't scale.

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daspoulos
19 Aug 2015, 17:38 PM
#55
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All i know is sherman HE is deadlier than hell. So its not all bad.
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BeefSurge
19 Aug 2015, 17:49 PM
#56
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Aug 2015, 08:30 AMKatitof

P4 scales better.
Hell, T34 scales better.

USF tanks have absolutely worst scaling in game, which is sad considering they don't have any alternatives.

Also, regarding 'exponentially' scaling.


2 radio net Shermans and a Jackson is a really potent armor combination. Shermans don't need to scale well individually because their meant to be used in groups with radio net, and to wipe squads on the flanks. Other than his abilities, the Major tier is the only tier I'm really happy with in the USF arsenal.

I can understand Jagdtigers and Elefants shutting down USF armor, but that's more of a teamgame issue.
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sherlock
19 Aug 2015, 18:55 PM
#57
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jul 2015, 04:35 AMWhySooSerious
Name:
Same penetration so P4 does not have more AT unless you are speakin of long range combat Kappa but I never have that problem since I always rush my shermans in close range. coh2-stats.com


The p4 is not just superior with regards to anti tank capabilities because of the better penetration, it's also due to the difference in frontal armour (another 20) which adds up to 40 at far, 30 mid and 20 close. The weaker armour of the sherman makes the p4 perform better comparatively. This is ignoring the p4's armour buff at vet 2.

Also adding to the p4s better at performance is its faster reload.
Help test the USF teching adjustment mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1553135357
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ThoseDeafMutes
19 Aug 2015, 23:36 PM
#58
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Sherman is great with its HE, mediocre with it's AP shell. But cost for cost its a great tank overall in it's anti-infantry / bunker / building role. I think major is a bit too costly currently, or at least in comparison to how fast Stug IIIs and PIVs hit the field.
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Mr. Someguy
20 Aug 2015, 00:08 AM
#59
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If scaling is the bigger problem, why not +80HP at Vet 2, maybe even again at Vet 3? That'd allow it to survive an extra hit against most AT. I'm not keen on keeping that and instant-repair though.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII

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ClassyDavid
20 Aug 2015, 02:36 AM
#60
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I could see the Sherman becoming more durable through veterancy. Would be a interesting new veteran level and help out with Sherman scaling a bit.
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