Make Falls and Obers 5 man squads

I doubt Relic will ever fix spacing it's been two years. This is why I suggested larger squads, I agree with the MP reduction though especially when it comes to obers.

Relic did fix spacing for a very necessary unit for a certain new faction (or so people claim), so they can do the same for obers and falls to help them from vanishing completely in one second from a mortar/m8.

I back what Luvnest had said.

not sure why everyone is complaining about falshcim, they own in my battles, they kill enemy troops ridiculously fast, my us troops however always get one shotted by tigers, king tigers, panthers, rackenwervers etc.

but the falshim keep on rocking...maybe people need to use cover, those yellow and green sections on the map, instead of trying to be rambo.

not sure why everyone is complaining about falshcim, they own in my battles, they kill enemy troops ridiculously fast, my us troops however always get one shotted by tigers, king tigers, panthers, rackenwervers etc.

but the falshim keep on rocking...maybe people need to use cover, those yellow and green sections on the map, instead of trying to be rambo.

the fuck... one shotted by panthers?

Have yet to see anyone mention the fact that those falls were vet 3.

I don't see the relevance of that video to claims that falls are somehow under-performing (the squad in the video was certainly cost effective)

All I see here is a unit traipsing through deep snow in front of an AI tank.

Unit spacing, maybe. But if you are looking for some sort of proof that falls suck, this isn't the video you seek.

Is this a joke?

You can't move your shit when you hear a stuka?
KT as a slow piece of metal.
GrW34 wipes? wanna try 120?
Brummbar is what? 160 fuel itself excluding tech?
etc etc

You may sound more convincing if you can play better.

Try to move out of stuka range on for example Trois-Ponts, map full of narrow roads. Add IR HT to Stuka and you have constant cheat mode to strike with Stuka.

So what it's slow? It wipes liek hell
120 is not better than GrW34 at this moment. Update your knowledge.
Brummbar is what? Wpining machine.


So in the end, it's bad that Scott can wipe Obers or Falsch but it's totally ok that Axis' units can wipe allied ones.

Or maybe we can ask about for example JT or Pak43 wiping scotts?

So in the end... If I attack with infantry straight into Scott/Bulldozer/TA/KT/ISU/Brummbar/etc I can't blame anyone for wiping, same if I know there is Pak43 and still I'm moving Scotts into its range - can blame only myself.

Is this a joke?

You can't move your shit when you hear a stuka?
KT as a slow piece of metal.
GrW34 wipes? wanna try 120?
Brummbar is what? 160 fuel itself excluding tech?
etc etc

You may sound more convincing if you can play better.

I saw a post that I liked 2 days ago...Was something like:
Never go full retard dude...

In return even out the DPS/reinforce cost along the squad, the fact that Soviets and USF get unwipeable 6 man elite infantry squads while OKW have to make do with 4 is ridiculous.

I'm tired of investing 400+ manpower and that squad simply getting nuked in a single scott/mortar round, please fix it relic

No, just no. Bad idea. Let's not screw up balance. Squads suffer wipes all the time in this game, is just that the elite squads are more expensive. Chosing to play with an elite squads it's a risk that you know and accept from verry beginning. The risk increases exponentialy for every extra elite squad you build so you definetly should have a diverse army and not rely mainly on elite infantry. That high reward - high risk shit, ya know? Shocks are not unbeatable and now falls and obers neither.

Squad wiping is in the "shit happens" category and we cannot change that.

No, just no. Bad idea. Let's not screw up balance. Squads suffer wipes all the time in this game, is just that the elite squads are more expensive. Chosing to play with an elite squads it's a risk that you know and accept from verry beginning. The risk increases exponentialy for every extra elite squad you build so you definetly should have a diverse army and not rely mainly on elite infantry. That high reward - high risk shit, ya know? Shocks are not unbeatable and now falls and obers neither.

Squad wiping is in the "shit happens" category and we cannot change that.

This.

It's not like they were totally clumped in your video, but that shot went down right in the middle of your squad. RNG. Shit happens.

Before tweaking balance they should fix squad spacing for all units. Then we'll see.

Try to move out of stuka range on for example Trois-Ponts, map full of narrow roads. Add IR HT to Stuka and you have constant cheat mode to strike with Stuka.

So what it's slow? It wipes liek hell
120 is not better than GrW34 at this moment. Update your knowledge.
Brummbar is what? Wpining machine.


So in the end, it's bad that Scott can wipe Obers or Falsch but it's totally ok that Axis' units can wipe allied ones.

Or maybe we can ask about for example JT or Pak43 wiping scotts?

So in the end... If I attack with infantry straight into Scott/Bulldozer/TA/KT/ISU/Brummbar/etc I can't blame anyone for wiping, same if I know there is Pak43 and still I'm moving Scotts into its range - can blame only myself.

Then it is the map problem, NOT stuka. Call yourself a strategiest and you can't understand the differences between map imbalance (primary issue) and Stuka?

KT isn't slow? It wipes? oh ISU wipes too!! If axis can move away from a 70 range 1-click wiper, how about you move your fat ass out of a 50 range (sight 40) slow tank?

120 is not better than GrW34? 6 men unwipable squad size, 1 man retreat and vet preserved, vet 3 normal mortar range, same damage, larger AoE. Want me to go on?

Brummbar? Allies TD smiles at you noob.

So in the end. l2p before you give your ignorant biased bullshit here and say Falls and Obers can wipe everything. They at best can kill some infantry (excluding Shocks to start with), no AT ability. You wanna compare them with Guards? PTRS AT, PTRS snipe model.

this isn't a blame game on which side is more guilty of wiping infantry. Two wrong doesn't make a right.

Squad and unit preservation is one of the most unique characteristic that define both coh1 and coh2. Units that break squad preservation also break the game.

No, just no. Bad idea. Let's not screw up balance. Squads suffer wipes all the time in this game, is just that the elite squads are more expensive. Chosing to play with an elite squads it's a risk that you know and accept from verry beginning. The risk increases exponentialy for every extra elite squad you build so you definetly should have a diverse army and not rely mainly on elite infantry. That high reward - high risk shit, ya know? Shocks are not unbeatable and now falls and obers neither.

Squad wiping is in the "shit happens" category and we cannot change that.

^siuking, the stukka is incredibly good at wiping. Your argument that australian magic is bad because he can't dodge a stukka barrage is ridiculous because anyone half decent is going to either predict your retreat or watch how you react and try to account for it in the next barrage.

One predicted side step, one predictable retreat and you've lost the squad.

I'm not claiming its OP, its an expensive unit on what was a lacking army (I ain't had a chance to play the new patch yet) but saying it and other axis units don't have wipe potential is uninformed, inexperienced nonsense.

It would be nice if Relic fixed spacing for all infantry. Last week I lost five Shock models to one panzershrek shot, which left me thinking "well, ok, I guess......." A couple of days ago, I killed 9 volks models with the first shell from a Zis barrage, and the total for the barrage ended up being 3 full squads of volks because of the way they were trying to close with the Zis. That pretty much sealed the game and left me laughing, while the other player is probably still pissed.

Just changing the model count probably wouldn't fix the problem. I've had a lot of five-model squads, including vet 5 volks, get one-shotted, and even some full conscript squads get one-shotted by a P4 or Tiger (particularly going around building corners on City 17). Relic would have to fix spacing, but then there would be the problem of getting all of the squad into cover, which was the problem that Relic "fixed" when they went to the current spacing.

Then it is the map problem, NOT stuka. Call yourself a strategiest and you can't understand the differences between map imbalance (primary issue) and Stuka?

KT isn't slow? It wipes? oh ISU wipes too!! If axis can move away from a 70 range 1-click wiper, how about you move your fat ass out of a 50 range (sight 40) slow tank?

120 is not better than GrW34? 6 men unwipable squad size, 1 man retreat and vet preserved, vet 3 normal mortar range, same damage, larger AoE. Want me to go on?

Brummbar? Allies TD smiles at you noob.

So in the end. l2p before you give your ignorant biased bullshit here and say Falls and Obers can wipe everything. They at best can kill some infantry (excluding Shocks to start with), no AT ability. You wanna compare them with Guards? PTRS AT, PTRS snipe model.

Its pointless to talk with someone so fanboyised it this particular thread (did not see anything about wiping Pathfinders, assault engis etc so it does not concerne you).

In The end, im bad because I cant dodge every single Stuka strike on cheat mode with IR. So Im gonna revert this and say that you are do bad if you walk with infantry straight into pure AI unit.

Shame you dont defend Scott, quad etc for being one hit by Pak.

Its pointless to talk with someone so fanboyised it this particular thread (did not see anything about wiping Pathfinders, assault engis etc so it does not concerne you).

In The end, im bad because I cant dodge every single Stuka strike on cheat mode with IR. So Im gonna revert this and say that you are do bad if you walk with infantry straight into pure AI unit.

Shame you dont defend Scott, quad etc for being one hit by Pak.

It's pointless to talk with someone so noobish. Since when assault engis and Pathfinders get 1-shot wiped? by Jagdtiger?

You are telling me that you walk your pathfinder, with a far sight range and can camo in cover into a KT before he can see you, you expect to come out alive?
and how often assault engis gets 1-shot wiped? when it is plain garbage to begin with

Yes. you are bad.
You can see there is an IR, you can hear Stuka when it fires, you can just move out of the way instead of retreating. Is that so hard? l2micro.

And since when Scott and Quad get one shot by Pak? are you retarded?

Make cons 12 man

Boys boys, queen didn't even make a post and you are already calling names. Keep the temper plx

Shit too late

It's pointless to talk with someone so noobish. Since when assault engis and Pathfinders get 1-shot wiped? by Jagdtiger?

You are telling me that you walk your pathfinder, with a far sight range and can camo in cover into a KT before he can see you, you expect to come out alive?
and how often assault engis gets 1-shot wiped? when it is plain garbage to begin with

Yes. you are bad.
You can see there is an IR, you can hear Stuka when it fires, you can just move out of the way instead of retreating. Is that so hard? l2micro.

And since when Scott and Quad get one shot by Pak? are you retarded?

You are retarded cause I said post before about pak43 then in later post just Pak hoping you are clever enough to understand its mind shortcut for pak43.

You can justjmove out of the way? Sure you can move but like someone said before enemy will not fire at your units but behind them hoping you will move them straight into volley.

And once again. L2p when someone wont move in time against Stuka but no l2p when someone is moving infantry in deep snow in front of AI unit? Double standards detected.

And they are wiped by grw sometimes, pz4 and many other units.

So 440mp unit wiped in front of Scott sometimes is unfair but pak43 killing always some units in 1 shot is fine yet they are more expensive) (of course its l2p if you keep them in front of Pak, just like its l2p when you charge Scott with infantry through Deep snow)

You are retarded cause I said post before about pak43 then in later post just Pak hoping you are clever enough to understand its mind shortcut for pak43.

You can justjmove out of the way? Sure you can move but like someone said before enemy will not fire at your units but behind them hoping you will move them straight into volley.

And once again. L2p when someone wont move in time against Stuka but no l2p when someone is moving infantry in deep snow in front of AI unit? Double standards detected.

And they are wiped by grw sometimes, pz4 and many other units.

So 440mp unit wiped in front of Scott sometimes is unfair but pak43 killing always some units in 1 shot is fine yet they are more expensive) (of course its l2p if you keep them in front of Pak, just like its l2p when you charge Scott with infantry through Deep snow)

The issue with what your trying to assert is that Allies have a far easier time of wiping squads than Axis do purely because of the 4 man squads that Ostheer and OKW are limited to. Why do you think Fuss are so popular? Because they are hard to kill and OKW players enjoy not having to have god tier micro to keep all their 4 man squads alive all the time when losing 1 model on an a squad is 50 mp down the drain.

The KT squad wiping is much less of an issue as Siu pointed out because the KT is really slow and can't see that far on it's own. The ISU can sight for itself and can easily kill any AT gun shooting at it.

The Pak43 you say? Well sure you lose 1 light vehicle when he first surprises you with it but then you can just Katy it, bomb it, use USF call in artillery on it, ect. Getting rid of a Pak43 is far easier than unseating a Soviet player who's coated the map in democharges, has a Kat or two waiting to bombard any point you want to capture, and god forbid has an ISU covering a vital point close to ice and you can't flank it because of ice or just the map not letting you.


The Stuka Zu Fuss represents a huge investment. It's 150 fuel (adjusted for the income disability) which is enough for a PIV or almost enough for a Panther or 2 Katyushas! If it wasn't good at what it did then it would be a horrible unused unit because nobody wants to spend so much fuel on a unit with a huuuuge cooldown. If you miss with a Stuka barrage then you have to wait a fairly significant time to fire again. It's vet is also kind of a joke, with Vet 4 and Vet 5 being utterly useless (although this is par for the course with some OKW units).

The Scott is just disgusting performance wise, 1 shots squads with extreme easy for a cheap fuel cost. Fixing unit spacing would help a lot with making it less cheesy but fuck it's infuriating to play against a good player using one because it has smoke, great speed, and can use superglue. At vet 2 it gets 20% less scatter ramping the squad wipe potential up to 11, NEVER let the enemy get a Vet 2 Scott.

That's mostly just that Motor Howitzer though, even after the nerfs it already got. And then there is this stupid squad formation thing that is still impacting everything negatively.