Soviet T3 need cost increase or Ost T3 cost reduction!

Dude Soviet T3 and OH T3 are NOT the same. How many times do people have to repeat this. And I played a few games with the new patch yesterday, as Soviets and OH. The AA HT is no big deal, One faust and one PAK shot

I have literally gone entire games since the patch never going past T3 as Soviets because there is no point. In T3 you get amazing AI, indirect fire, and a fast and incredibly cheap TD. SU-76's can easily counter anything Ostheer might throw out on the field till like 13-14 CP.

An M5 will kill a Pak gun in like 4 seconds lol and the M5 can overdrive away or towards the AT gun to avoid it's tight cone of fire.

I have literally gone entire games since the patch never going past T3 as Soviets because there is no point. In T3 you get amazing AI, indirect fire, and a fast and incredibly cheap TD. SU-76's can easily counter anything Ostheer might throw out on the field till like 13-14 CP.

An M5 will kill a Pak gun in like 4 seconds lol and the M5 can overdrive away or towards the AT gun to avoid it's tight cone of fire.

Indeed. It's just redicioulous. I want soviets to have a viable T3 but currently it 's just sooo freaking OP that top/better players fully abuse it. Most of the people that say that it's fine don't compete in the top 200, so don't experience the OPness at it's fullest

How many times do I have to repeat, the new patch gives more chances to soviet to use their T3 mobile light tanks which help their map control but limits ostheer always to choose solid defending units like paks or schrecks. Yes yes the T4 of soviet and T3 of ost are on the same level and both costs are ok.

The fact is,yes ost has ATGs ,schrecks and mines but which faction doesn't have ? Soviet has guards ATGs and cheap mines too.Also USF has bazookas and M20 mines and ATGs.Theres no problem about ATGs vs ATGs or guards vs shrecks PG but light vehicles vs light tanks. The only issue is ost lacks a whole light-armor tech when they delay the medium armors.

222 is just a thin armored scout car which can't be the same level with light tanks. Before buffing the stats 222 can't be a soft counter to M5/T70/Stuart.Relic said they want to increase the uses of the light tanks and more viable strategies but they should give ost "a real light armor" first, at least a soft counter to light armors, maybe a buffed 222 or a default puma can do this job. Now they makes ost the only faction which has hard midgames and always defends. Surely it's like the old meta time when soviet is against OKW light armors but now soviet has the early counter(SU76). The patch is such good except this one issue. Hope relic reworks this ASAP.

So what do you guys exactly want? For Soviet T3 to be delayed long enough so OS can have their T3 at the same time? How is that even fair when Soviet T3 consists of light armour while German one produce medium tanks?
If M5 mobility is an issue then make it so it requires a set up to fire. I'm more than fine with that as for the rest that's exactly what Soviets had to deal with before in OKW match up. Fast Luchs or Flack truck. I'm pretty sure that with superior T1 and T2 Germans have more than enough to deal with anything Soviets will throw
You can make SU-76 barrage cost some ammunition as well but some small buff would be in place to justify its cost as its RNG right now.

I have literally gone entire games since the patch never going past T3 as Soviets because there is no point. In T3 you get amazing AI, indirect fire, and a fast and incredibly cheap TD. SU-76's can easily counter anything Ostheer might throw out on the field till like 13-14 CP.

An M5 will kill a Pak gun in like 4 seconds lol and the M5 can overdrive away or towards the AT gun to avoid it's tight cone of fire.

How many people build Soviet T3 AND 4 last patch? you cant field a Stug by 13-14 CP? The patch just went live, less than 24 hours ago.

Indeed. It's just redicioulous. I want soviets to have a viable T3 but currently it 's just sooo freaking OP that top/better players fully abuse it. Most of the people that say that it's fine don't compete in the top 200, so don't experience the OPness at it's fullest

Dude, its just less than 24 hours. wait and see, i am sure you will learn to counter it.

BUILD AT PEOPLE, I WILL BE RELEASING A VIDEO ON HOW TO DO THIS SHORTLY

BUILD AT PEOPLE, I WILL BE RELEASING A VIDEO ON HOW TO DO THIS SHORTLY

Can't wait. Thumbs up +1

Dude, its just less than 24 hours. wait and see, i am sure you will learn to counter it.

Unfortunatly for you I already playing the patch the whole week to test.

You are playing 2v2s which is total BS. I just cant imagine whats a problem if you both made 1 ATG. They will cover the whole map basicaly.

Having played Soviets and only Soviets ... I can say the M5 is pretty OP.

BUT a lot of other units are actually underwhelming. Like I never see the point in building a T70, the armor is so low, it barely counters anything before getting taken out.

Furthermore, what do Soviets have as a blob control that's not an immobile MG... Like Mg's get taken out by mortars, grenades and Arty in the lategame. Massive Axis blobs just feel cheap and easy to use.

You are playing 2v2s which is total BS. I just cant imagine whats a problem if you both made 1 ATG. They will cover the whole map basicaly.

Uuuhm no not really...

What about a default Puma on tier 2 that is only unlocked when you upgrade Battlephase 2 (T3)? Then you have light armor, but not ridiculously early. That might be poorly timed however...

I also have to echo the fact that everyone is comparing Ost T3 with Medium armor to Soviet T3 with light armor. It's a ridiculous comparison.

It's also important to remember this is exactly what happened with the old Ost players having flamers so fast - which is why they delayed them a tier. A half track that began reinforcing Ost squads and making early fights unbearable as Russians. The meta centred around guards as a result, and the rest is history.

Would be interested to see how the German Puma commander handles fast M5 as well.

I would expect Ost tier 2 to handle soviet tier 3 quite well with Shrek PzGrens and AT guns, along with HT support (granted its risky but would be very powerful vs shocks).

Also keep in mind soviets have a really difficult choice - if they go shocks to counter MG's, they lose out on guards. If they go guards, MG's will control the map.

M5 should definitely be looked at carefully however, especially with the SU-76 backing it up. I'd almost argue the SU-76 is as much a problem as M5, as it makes soviet T3 too powerful for too long. Maybe reducing SU-76 penetration could help?

Sorry, haven't played much. Just throwing ideas out there.

Sorry, haven't played much. Just throwing ideas out there.

I think the whiners not you should say sorry. They play 1v1 games 1 day in fact (in preview it was team games mostly available).
Puma available at 5 CP. In last game T70 came at 4.5 CP.
BS whine topic nothing else unfortunately. Puma is an overkill. You have enough T1-T2 units to deal with t70.

The patch hasn't even been out 24hrs and the complaints are rolling in thick and fast!! Most of you German players expect some sort of hard counter for everything, as a soviet player, over the past year it has been an absolute slog to be able beat a decent German player. I use to see panzer 4s requently being rolled out 9-11 mins in. This patch has hopefully stopped that. Yes the m5 half track is a devastating unit, and so it should be just try to imagine four AA 50cals being fired in your direction, I know it's not meant to be realistic as such but still. And the T3s are completely different soviets have no mid tank in that true now. Rant over!!! And I have to say this.... L2P/L2F thanks.

Be fair AAA, the mod has been out a while.

If there is a complaint in this thread, its that Ost T2 isn't competing with its soviet equivalent T3. In which case, I suggest that Ost T2 has a massive cost increase and the Puma is added. Everyone happy now? /sarcasm.

"- Require T4 to be build to unlock the M5 quad upgrade."

Ok this didn't work well for the 251, why would it work for the M5? Cant we learn from previous mistakes?


I don't get why you need Ostheer T-3 with a P-IV or a Stug to counter the M5. I honestly don't.

Two shots with a Pak and the enemy looses 120 muni. And what about mines?


"The dps of the quad pushes even 2x 222s back"
No it does not. Me and Choccy have tested it. It should result in the loss of one 222 and the M5.

"why not buff the 222 to be able to counter soviet light vehicles in t3, the ost lacks a light vehicle and the 222 can fill the role. "
Agreed add some needed damage to the 222 so they will be a more effective soft counter.

But I digress MendQ and Aerohank usually know what they are on about so maybe Sov T-3 aught to be pushed back a little bit. But again I don't see this as anything major, good play with Pak is usually enough to get the M5.

Excellent analysis. Good post.

Thanks for giving us some fresh perspective.

I think the whiners not you should say sorry. They play 1v1 games 1 day in fact (in preview it was team games mostly available).
Puma available at 5 CP. In last game T70 came at 4.5 CP.
BS whine topic nothing else unfortunately. Puma is an overkill. You have enough T1-T2 units to deal with t70.

My perspective applies only to 1v1. Having played a few games with this patch(all vs sov coincidentally ) and watched many more, it is fairly obvious the amount of time sov T3 has free range is too great. It is easy to say use packs or schrecks but unless the sov player becomes overly aggressive or careless you have little opportunity to counter.

Ost has absolutely no choice but to turtle and simply try to hold until T3. Forget T4, thats not going to happen. It you sent any units off to harass the fringes their dead. Schrecks are tediously unreliable at max range, often getting suppressed and thus delaying shot or missing. For grens you either faust and maybe die in process or don't faust and definitely get chased down.

Also forget scout cars as a reliable counter. Yes they work if you can ambush the HT however that comes with risk of mines and at nades because you have to flank,but in the open its suicide.

I don't think it is grossly OP, more just a little to early and probably too long until Ost t3. It also has the potential to the win sov the game in one push if ost is unlucky or not 100% prepared. I also think some maps that don't have the fuel close to base will just become quite difficult as sov can just choke Ost for fuel. The extra map control also allows sov to spam mines everywhere.

Mobile defense does shut it down and as a result will be a mandatory commander this patch.

The other issue is its boring. The games i watched just devolved into two fortified lines with the sov player just bombarding away, whilst ost prays he can hang on. Ironically the games ost won would have turned out differently had the sov player prepared ( with mines ) properly.

More time will tell exactly how this plays out but I suspect Ost options / playstyle just narrowed considerably and thus just became more boring to play.

The patch hasn't even been out 24hrs and the complaints are rolling in thick and fast!! Most of you German players expect some sort of hard counter for everything, as a soviet player, over the past year it has been an absolute slog to be able beat a decent German player. I use to see panzer 4s requently being rolled out 9-11 mins in. This patch has hopefully stopped that. Yes the m5 half track is a devastating unit, and so it should be just try to imagine four AA 50cals being fired in your direction, I know it's not meant to be realistic as such but still. And the T3s are completely different soviets have no mid tank in that true now. Rant over!!! And I have to say this.... L2P/L2F thanks.

Ah, the mythical creature, the "German" player, and his sinister machinations!
Couple of points: Fanboys and monofaction (or predominantly one faction) players exist, especially on these forums, but most "German" players are US players are Soviet players, and their interest is a balanced game. I have used Quads all morning, they come at 3 cps and are vastly too strong for cost/time of arrival. Back it up with an Su-76, and even a PIV need not worry you. Other people have predicted that beforehand in this very thread, so its not original on my part if I postulate that the meta in this patch will be centered around this unit combination.

By the way, over the last few patches with the Guard Motor meta, Soviets have been the strongest faction in 1s, as evidenced by statistics and tournaments. Their contender for that spot has been OH, no wait, OKW, no wait, actually US.
This will eventually change, as it always does as long as this game remains patched and supported, there have been long stretches of Ostheer being broken OP, but recently this has never been the case.

early t70s are cancer