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Conscripts need mid-game buff

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aaa
16 Jul 2015, 02:28 AM
#1
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2015, 04:34 AMThe_rEd_bEar
I've been saying con's needed a late game buff for since march deployment, but every kept crying about con's getting green cover and soviet call in infantry like that magically made con's useful pass the 12 minute mark


Concripts need mid game long range weapon upgrade.
Without current PTRSs conscripts dont scale into mid game. Becoming weak combat unit. While grens (with the same price) getting non doctrinal LMG upgrade. And becoming a lot (x2) better this way. How is that gameplay fair?.

PTRS was nerfed but what about LMG? That was already better than PTRS.
Many top 100 1v1 players was saying that grens LMG is OP.


So I see 2 options

1. LMG must be doctrinal and nerfed by 30%. Another solution would remove LMG from grens, and add it to some expensive infantry.
2. or make a cons PTRS upgrade non doctrinal
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braciszek
16 Jul 2015, 02:39 AM
#2
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Posts: 2053

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2015, 02:28 AMaaa
PTRS was nerfed but what about LMG? Many top 100 player (cruzz) was saying that it is OP.
I think LMG must be doctrinal and nerfed by 30% minimum.


Gren LMG's wont magically become doctrinal, ever. And that doesnt improve conscripts in the later game either. Grens also face off against riflemen, who show up with 2 LMG's (or technically assault rifles according to the game) later.

Cons PTRS in Alpha was changed to have worse accuracy (and no chance to drop). 3 shots to kill an infantry model now isnt bad at all since the rest of the squad not with a PTRS will also be shooting at the infantry... and damage versus vehicles is the same. Besides, thats one commander. PTRS change also went for Guards as well.

Some commanders allow conscripts to gain PPSH's.. but thats the worst upgrade for any infantry in existence.

It has been suggested for cons to get a DP upgrade at some point. Even though it is the worst LMG, ... i dont feel like it would improve the game.

But its probably the best way to make them not so useless in the end.
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Grumpy
16 Jul 2015, 02:52 AM
#3
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Posts: 1954

give Cons a universal PTRS upgrade (the new, nerfed one) 40 mp/upgrade, can buy only after building either T1 or T2

remove the +.07 received accuracy (this should make them about the same as Grens)


(and give Tank Hunter camo'd AT guns to replace PTRS).

Cons could then support SU76 or T34/76 vs PIV.
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Alexzandvar
16 Jul 2015, 02:56 AM
#4
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Conscripts need their utility enhanced (like a buff to the molotov and merge squad giving vet to the reinforced squad) what they DON'T need is more blob enabling silliness.
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aaa
16 Jul 2015, 03:07 AM
#5
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2015, 02:39 AMbraciszek

Some commanders allow conscripts to gain PPSH's.. but thats the worst upgrade for any infantry in existence.


this upgrade is not a pair with LMG at all. It is making long range capabilities even worse. What is needed is long range weapon upgrade.

Right now it is silly how 240MP LMG grens becoming terminators. While expensive panzgrens and esp. sturmpios are pretty much trash in mid-late game.
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BeefSurge
16 Jul 2015, 04:10 AM
#6
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2015, 02:56 AMAlexzandvar
Conscripts need their utility enhanced (like a buff to the molotov and merge squad giving vet to the reinforced squad) what they DON'T need is more blob enabling silliness.


Going by this logic Riflemen and Grens are blobby and silly?
The Fascisti Will Pay.
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Mr. Someguy
16 Jul 2015, 04:18 AM
#7
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Posts: 4928

Buff Conscript PPSh's so that they do not, at any distance, deal less damage than a Mosin Nagant. Allow Conscripts to upgrade to PPSh's once T3 has been constructed. Replace PPSh in doctrine with DP Upgrades instead, and maybe throw F1 Grenades in there somewhere too.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII

> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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FestiveLongJohns
16 Jul 2015, 04:19 AM
#8
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They really don't...

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Alexzandvar
16 Jul 2015, 04:32 AM
#9
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2015, 04:10 AMBeefSurge


Going by this logic Riflemen and Grens are blobby and silly?


Yes
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comm_ash
16 Jul 2015, 04:36 AM
#10
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Long range upgrades will just make for a stale metagame. Conscripts with a buffed PPSH package would be best, upgradeable at T3 or T4. This will also reduce the Soviet tendency to float munitions, and play into the overall theme of the Soviet Army.
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braciszek
16 Jul 2015, 05:08 AM
#11
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Posts: 2053

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2015, 04:36 AMcomm_ash
Long range upgrades will just make for a stale metagame. Conscripts with a buffed PPSH package would be best, upgradeable at T3 or T4. This will also reduce the Soviet tendency to float munitions, and play into the overall theme of the Soviet Army.


Would be nice, if Relic was willing to change the slot of doctrinal PPSH's...

Something super iconic of the Soviets, and is doctrinal and rather bad...

This would technically be better for the game than more LMG's.
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comm_ash
16 Jul 2015, 05:14 AM
#12
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2015, 05:08 AMbraciszek


Would be nice, if Relic was willing to change the slot of doctrinal PPSH's...

Something super iconic of the Soviets, and is doctrinal and rather bad...

This would technically be better for the game than more LMG's.


Actually, I was thinking about keeping doctrinal ppshs the same, and letting them stack. That way, players with specific doctrines could get more ppshs on their squads, but that may be op.

Either way, something needs to be done. The nerf to molos, coupled with the nerf to merge and the nerf to sandbags has seriously weakened conscripts' roles beyond the midgame. Something needs to be done (or alternatively, do something to make penals more cost efficient)
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Cabreza
16 Jul 2015, 05:23 AM
#13
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Posts: 656

If we're talking about giving cons late game scaling I've always loved the idea of a squad based (or possibly global) upgrade that increases the Con squad size to 8, decreases their pop cost to .75, decreases reinforce cost to 15, and removes the +7% received accuracy they suffer. That way Con dps doesn't change dramatically but they become a lot more survivable vs late game infantry and with a cheaper reinforce can expect to trade more efficiently. Relic could even attach the frontaviki dialogue to it from the campaign.

The alternative is always a global upgrade that unlocks the PPSH upgrade for cons or just tying the PPSH upgrade to T3 or T4. You could also make the upgrade remove the +7% received accuracy penalty as it is only really necessary in the early game when Cons can overpower grens and volks on a 1 for 1 basis. In this instance the PPSH upgrade from commanders could remain in place and act as an additional upgrade, allowing a con squad that buys PPSHs twice to become fully equipped.
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ElSlayer
16 Jul 2015, 05:33 AM
#14
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Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

-0.7 recieved accuracy on vet 2 would be a good start.
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Mr. Someguy
16 Jul 2015, 05:39 AM
#15
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Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2015, 05:14 AMcomm_ash
Actually, I was thinking about keeping doctrinal ppshs the same, and letting them stack. That way, players with specific doctrines could get more ppshs on their squads, but that may be op.


Huh, makes me think, maybe a global PPSh upgrade 2-3 per squad. Keep PPSh in doctrine and let them stack, but make Doctrine PPSh also give F1 Grenades (takes Molo slot). Then players can choose to:

- Get non-doctrine PPSh upgrade
- Upgrade each squad individually with doctrine
- Do both for a powerful shock army theme
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII

> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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What Doth Life?!
16 Jul 2015, 06:39 AM
#16
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Patrion 27

Posts: 1664

What if... Conscripts were even crappier without vet and weapon teams weren't built from the HQ buildings... but were upgrades for Conscripts!
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The_rEd_bEar
16 Jul 2015, 06:59 AM
#17
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Posts: 760

Con's should get an upgrade with svts that increase their mid to short range performance or change the ppsh profile on con's to have better mid range performance. That way the gren longrange\cons mid-short range dynamic is there, but con's becoming useless sacks of meat because of game design is awful.
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Spanky
16 Jul 2015, 07:04 AM
#18
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Have the PPSH upgrade like the BAR upgrade, but you can buy more than two to them. Ofc pricing would need some thinking.
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Katitof
16 Jul 2015, 07:14 AM
#19
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Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

I'd rather see PPSH being actually good and penals redesigned to mirror rifle M8 profile.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Gluhoman
16 Jul 2015, 07:20 AM
#20
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Posts: 380

Americans have upgrades
Grenadiers have upgrades
Volks have upgrades
Conscripts ?????? have only shitty doctrinal ppsh upgrade and nerfed Ptrs upgrade. Even sandbags were nerfed. So cons must have something for late game. Maybe with veterancy they are becoming to strelki, with grenades and svt. Maybe make a dp upgrade, three dps for 80 ammo or two dps for 60 ammo. So something need to be done. Relic, make non doctrinal for cons while we have time to test it.
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