Conscripts need mid-game buff

First things first. With the sandbag nerf (which was justified), the received accuracy penalty needs to go. I would say it should be negated at vet 1 or vet 2, so that OKW don't get over run too easily early game. I'm not sure at what vet it needs to go, it's going to have to be tested and paced.

Once that is gone, let's play with them, and see how things turn out. I'm guessing they'll still be fodder at late game.

If they are still bad late game, how about a bonus in cover at vet 3, akin to Ostruppen? That way, a spammer will still be punished for silly play, but someone with at least a little micro, will be rewarded for keeping them alive.

Or if versatility is a thing, how about enabling them to build mines at vet2, and tank traps at vet 3?

I dont care about 2v2 sorry.

Shocks maybe

Guards? No

I always get 6+ guards and i rarely bleed, they trade extremely effectively, especially in green cover. (5 rifles bleed more, fun fact)

Penals are the ones that need a buff, Imo they should be a threat to vetted grens at vet 3.

Also, ppsh needs a buff

When do you do that? In April? Since that's the last time you touched the game

However I agree with other posters here, cons need an late game option without buffing their early game. But it has to underline their role as close combat unit, so either SVT 40 or PPSh. In that way Grens stay superior on long range and cons stay superior on close-mid range.

When do you do that? In April?

problem?

Or do guards still have ober dps?

Meanwhile, that expensive grens cost the same 240 mp as the cheap cons.
That expensive grens reinforce full squad for 90mp while the cheap cons need 100mp.
That expensive grens don't need to flank, because they have Rnades that expensive grens also don't need to spend additional 25 fuel to use the Rnade. They also don't need to spend another 25 fuel to use inferior soft AT.

How come that cheap cons need MORE resources invested to them then these poor expensive grens and still are inferior to them?

Alex dropped on bullshit greatly recently, but knowing physics, nothing disappears into the void, I can tell all of his previous bullshit have found shelter in you.

You're completely clueless.

As long as cons and penals stay as they are, soviet meta will always center around call-ins.
While not tanks anymore, the need for doctrinal infantry is as strong as it ever was.
Even cheaper volks bring incomparably more to the table, have better doctrinal abilities, have better scaling and fight better at late game.

If a gren squad is reduced to one model, it will cost 90 mp to fully reinforce. If a con squad is reduced to one model it will cost 100 mp to fully reinforce. The only difference is that for 100 mp soviet squad gains 5 models while a gren squad gains 3 models. Savy?

Don't sell me your bullshit'cause I don't buy it.

That expensive gren squad cannot flank that easily even if it wanted, because it doesn't have the "ouwaaa" feature. Since when the rifle nade makes flanking for grens as "not needed"? What is the average models kill when a rifle nade hits a maxim? 2? 3? From 6 models? But if I lolotov one MG it needs quick whithdraw/relocation or I will lose that squad. Those upgrades that costs fuel for soviet conscripts means that all conscripts on map can use them. In order to further teching you will not have to buy phases and unlock tires, so you have an OPTION to buy those upgrades or not and spend your fuel to build tires and quickly hit me with a T70 or even T34 while I am still thinking if I should buy shrecks or build a PAK.

If cons stomp your volks in the first minutes of the game and you lose map control, how can vetting them will help you in any way smart ass? If you don't help them with 1-2 sturmpio squads or a kubel, it's over since startgame.

When searching for bullsit depots you need to carefully search inside. If Alex dropped his "bullshit" you certainly didn't drop yours and it still infects the forums.
You are not clueless, how you imply that I am, but completely ill-intentioned, wanting to screw up balance in soviet's favor since the beggining of times, on two forums (at least).

No, one wants to buff cons early game. Their fine, its the late game thats the issue because they become useless cannon fodder

Oh the pots and kettles in this thread...

Can we stick to topic please? Loads of good suggestions get buried thanks to personal vendettas.

penals should get some kind of self destruction, like the t34 ram ability. Taliban Penals or something like this

The only thing cons need is better veterancy and some penal rework to have "elite" infantry without commanders.

penals should get some kind of self destruction, like the t34 ram ability. Taliban Penals or something like this

I support this

penals should get some kind of self destruction, like the t34 ram ability. Taliban Penals or something like this

You're confusing soviets with japanese here.

Penal cost to 280-290, long range DPS to 8 and there, clear role, no overlap with cons, incentive to not focus on doctrinal infantry, penals fixed.

bullshit

you're full of it

You're confusing soviets with japanese here.

Penal cost to 280-290, long range DPS to 8 and there, clear role, no overlap with cons, incentive to not focus on doctrinal infantry, penals fixed.

Long range DPS so they can use their flamethrower maybe?

Long range DPS so they can use their flamethrower maybe?

Rifles doesn't seem to mind exactly that setting.

This is a Cons thread. Make one for the Penals, if you so wish.


Buffing Penals, does not change the fact that Cons are garbage late game. The whole point of this latest patch, is to give all the factions more strategic options.

Making soviets build t1 is not giving them extra strategic options.

This is a Cons thread. Make one for the Penals, if you so wish.


Buffing Penals, does not change the fact that Cons are garbage late game. The whole point of this latest patch, is to give all the factions more strategic options.

Making soviets build t1 is not giving them extra strategic options.

Relic stated multiple times they don't intend to make cons useful late game. Apparently they think veterans of Stalingrad, Lenningrad and all of these guard and shock armies were still fresh conscripts with no experience at 1944 where multiplayer happens.
I'd love some upgrade package at T3 or T4 or just stock upgrade unlocked at that tiers, but relic is in way too deep denial about it, so we might just as well talk about units that have a chance at improvement.

Well if you believe Relic is so intent on not making any changes, why the hell do you post here so often?

Seriously, the logic displayed by some users is just unfathomable.

Well if you believe Relic is so intent on not making any changes, why the hell do you post here so often?

Seriously, the logic displayed by some users is just unfathomable.

Because
1)I have a lot of time at work to do it
2)I like shooting down stupid ideas which we have plenty around here, not saying con late game buff is stupid, just saying I don't believe in it.

Come on, relic doesn't even intend to make PPSH, the SHORT RANGE ANTI INFANTRY specialist package BETTER then PTRS package at AI. There is absolutely NOTHING that would indicate relic willingness of making cons useful late game.

If PTRS wasn't used by guards it probably still would be a piece of utter, steamy shit.

Because
1)I have a lot of time at work to do it
2)I like shooting down stupid ideas which we have plenty around here, not saying con late game buff is stupid, just saying I don't believe in it.

You've basically just admitted, in not so many words, that you're:

1. Bored
2. A troll

A bored troll. Hmmm, what could possibly go wrong?

I could say you're a troll as you're focusing on the wrong part of my post.

Also god forbid one would actually be interested in discussions of their favorite game!
That must be boredom indeed!

Because
1)I have a lot of time at work to do it
2)I like shooting down stupid ideas which we have plenty around here, not saying con late game buff is stupid, just saying I don't believe in it.

Come on, relic doesn't even intend to make PPSH, the SHORT RANGE ANTI INFANTRY specialist package BETTER then PTRS package at AI. There is absolutely NOTHING that would indicate relic willingness of making cons useful late game.

If PTRS wasn't used by guards it probably still would be a piece of utter, steamy shit.

What is your job Katitof?