Ostheer HMG too strong now

Leave it to our designated "passive-aggressive-aggro" to derail the thread into a flame war.

On topic, I think the game is going on a right track. I've recently had fun blobbing as allies prior to the June patch but doesn't work like that anymore. But then again Axis do not get steamrolled in urban maps finally.

Now suck it.

Edit:

Damn you cruzzi!
Took my couple of minutes too long to find the change.

Well played Katitof.... Well played.

Two squads. One draws suppression, the other one is the kicker. Preferably sturmpio both and shooting from upclose.
OR: run around the house and shoot. You will kil it eventualy
Or: use scavange or special ops. Cover the building in grenades. Building falls, no survivors.

I'm stopping here, I'm to lazy to remember them all...and just had 2 beers.

Yeah sure;. if the enemy is stupid enough to let me kindly flank his mg in the house or stay inside while nades fly...the thing is okw has zero effective anti-building weapon (don't mention the ISG as it takes ages to destroy a house or a Stuka which is a fortune to get for 1-2 mg house).

Flame rounds (like 30 muni) for the raketen 43 would be a big help.

^ You can wipe out a whole faction with your stuka. So it's not just 1-2 maxims in da house.

The ISG is really too expensive, as well as the pack howitzer. the 81mm mortar manage to be more effective while costing 1/2 as much.

Yeah sure;. if the enemy is stupid enough to let me kindly flank his mg in the house or stay inside while nades fly...the thing is okw has zero effective anti-building weapon (don't mention the ISG as it takes ages to destroy a house or a Stuka which is a fortune to get for 1-2 mg house).

Flame rounds (like 30 muni) for the raketen 43 would be a big help.

Non-doctrinally they are better off then USF at building clearing with free access to grenades. The only difference is their doctrines don't help them at all at anti-garrison.

Non-doctrinally they are better off then USF at building clearing with free access to grenades. The only difference is their doctrines don't help them at all at anti-garrison.

I'm not saying it's a great option.. but Ambush Grenades can take down some of the structures in this game for only 10 muni.

Von Ivans new MG42 Meta (Build 7 of them!)

Von Ivans new MG42 Meta (Build 7 of them!)

So...did he win?

Yes they have won 2/2 so far with MG42 spam

Soon to be 3

Yes they have won 2/2 so far with MG42 spam

Soon to be 3

I also think that the mg feels a little bit too strong., but soviets have enough to counter mg spam like mortar, sniper, m3 flamer, shocks with smoke grenades.

The MG 42 could raised to 280 Manpower. I don't want it to get nerfed again though, it actually stops mindless blobs and Ooralotovs now. I'd rather pay more for a weapon that does its job, than to pay less for one that doesn't.

The MG 42 could raised to 280 Manpower. I don't want it to get nerfed again though, it actually stops mindless blobs and Ooralotovs now. I'd rather pay more for a weapon that does its job, than to pay less for one that doesn't.

I'd also agree that's probably the way to go about it. Reducing the suppression would probably meet with backlash since 95% of mentions about HMG42s were complaining it didn't suppress well enough...but I'd still doubt it's completely fine as is now.

Just increase its buildtime and remove support weapons ability to cap would fix pure mg builds

The MG 42 could raised to 280 Manpower. I don't want it to get nerfed again though, it actually stops mindless blobs and Ooralotovs now. I'd rather pay more for a weapon that does its job, than to pay less for one that doesn't.

I don't think the mg42 is too cheap. There's other problem but the mg42 is not it. the USF just lack a decent artillery (pack howitzer is not decent, it's crap)

I don't think the mg42 is too cheap. There's other problem but the mg42 is not it. the USF just lack a decent artillery (pack howitzer is not decent, it's crap)

Pack howitzer is ok without being great but is probably too expensive.

60mm Mortar would be a nice addition

60mm Mortar would be a nice addition

if the USF got a mortar no one is going to build the pack howitzer ever again.

After being playing around 10-15 games, I think the HMG42 is too strong effectively vs USF.

-1) HMG42 240mp hard counter 280mp rifles. Since USF doesn't have any other starting unit to fight, HMG42 is simply the best tool to shutdown USF early game. In a map like semoisky, I have see 3 MG start, garrisoning each key building in the center and holding all the game long.

-2) HMG42 vet1 hard counter the entire USF tiers 1. It is also something important to highlight, since the HMG have been buffed, it is easier to get it vetted. M20 and Half-track are simply hard countered if they enter the HMG arc of fire.
Why hard counter and not soft counter, because it kills any light vehicle in 1 burst making the arc of fire (very large one) also an area of denial for anything USF can field from T1. Last but not least, it kills it faster than a pack.

To counter it, USF doesn't have a lot of options, flanking + smoke or going T2 pack howi or going Doctrinal mortar cp2.

One requires a lot of micro and rapid decision making for a non guarantied result:
-Smoke is a double edge sword + you need the munition
-Pioneers have extra vision and can detect you before you start your attack, HMG can be repositioned before it.
-You are attacking and so going to bleed hard, success or not.
-Retreating from a unsuccessful flank is, in many time, equal to losing lot more model, if you try a real big flank and it doesn't work, your units behind the line are simply going to be mince meat for the MG.
This is why it requires a rapid decision making, retreating in time to not bleed too hard if it fail.

Pack Howi is simply too late and to expensive for what it delivers.

Mobile mortar comes with a good overall doctrine. But it requires you to invest 40 fuel and will be shut down by a fast 251. In addition USF player must plant m7 mines to cover it.

The HMG42 isn't too strong by itself. but also because it scale so well with T1 other support weapons. HMG42 + mortar is simply bestial with Pioneer to give sigh, you can take ground little by little.
HMG42 + sniper is probably also really strong. I haven't face it yet but since USF can't do shit vs sniper in first hand, sniper + HMG is going to rampage. Once the HMG is vet1 it can cover it from any USF T1 unit.
HMG42 + gren is more potent, vet1 + faust and USF T1 is shutdown.

There are many people around that forum talking about learning to flank. This is exact, the problem is learning requires some kind of will (to learn) and a learning progression visible. The change has been really brutal, not sure if the usual USF "blobbers" will be interesting in learning anything from that.
Why am I saying that, simply because there is a new no-brain blobby faction now: Ostheer. 2MG start + grenspam, you can blob all you want and get HMG to cover your ass.

Solutions are probably one sided.
USF cannot be change that much or it will impact USF/OKW matchup. Adding or moving mortar/pack to T0/unlock is probably the only solution USF side.
Ostheer can be tone down in some other areas now. increasing the HMG price to 280-300 is imo the best change to bring, this price is fair in regard to its capabilities, it will make the unit less spammable and bring slowdown OStheer BO and tiering.