US need more now.

I think you start with 15 fuel as USF.

You start off with 0 fuel.

Funny that riflemen did fine vs mg42 without smoke in vcoh, maybe players were better then

I seem to recall they had a mortar and a non doc wc51 truck who could hunt down snipers without sacrificing an entire AT tier called the captain.

This thread is gold, i don't blame axis for saying US has m20. It's just another thing relic thought would be fine, let's give the faction great infantry but no indirect fire early game at all. Works great vs OKW, vs a well rounded faction? Not so much.

I fear werh more then OKW, but yeah that might be preference.

You start off with 0 fuel.

No you start with 15 fuel. You obviously dont play the usf much do you.

That's the point I wasn't forced into getting anything. You had to spend your munitions on something, but it didn't have to be any one thing. Now you are forced into getting grenades every single time, and spend a large majority of your munitions on them. Which directly takes away from the variety of the entire US faction.

Incorrect. Nades are useful tools but are not mandatory. if you wish to make head on assaults then smoke nades are indeed very mandatory. for all other things flanking , harassing and sticking to green cover/buildings until the m20 arrives are perfectly fine.

You start off with 0 fuel.

USF starts with 15 Fuel!!

Can somebody tell me why the AT gun wasn't moved to t0 and unlockable after going lieutenant or captain. I don't care what relic does to the faction but I was really looking forward to that change.

No you start with 15 fuel. You obviously dont play the usf much do you.

Nah just a brainfart. USF is actually my most played faction.

Incorrect. Nades are useful tools but are not mandatory. if you wish to make head on assaults then smoke nades are indeed very mandatory. for all other things flanking , harassing and sticking to green cover/buildings until the m20 arrives are perfectly fine.

Which I wish to god actually worked. Unfortuanetly sticking to cover will only get you spotted by pios while the MGs set up out of range and take you out from afar. And with green cover not really working to stop suppresion anymore you'll be suppressed too. And outnumbered considering those MGs are actually cheaper then your rifles.

I think you start with 15 fuel as USF.

erm, NEIN

USF starts with 15 Fuel!!

I also want what you are smoking up

I only play 1v1 so that is what my perspective is limited to, and I think it is too early to fully assess the change, but the mg42 change was something that was desperately needed. That being said further changes are probably going to be needed but it was far to easy to just spam your way to victory on many maps.

Soviets and to a lesser extent USF really could do whatever they wanted for the first half of the game and really only needed to start making real decisions once axis armour started to roll out. Axis on the other hand basically had to play according to what allies did and were often forced into teching/commander choice based how the game was progressing.

I think the changes allow axis a bit more freedom to choose how they want to play the game. Allies on the other hand may not be able to dominate the etire map early game any more but they can still hold 50% with out to much trouble.

Personally i would like to see capture rates for all weapon team reduced by 50%.

erm, NEIN

erm, yes.

I am watching Overlord cast atm and i checked when he started his last game.

erm, yes.

I am watching Overlord cast atm and i checked when he started his last game.

Yes, they do start with 15 fuel. My apologies

Was USF underpowered early game before mg buff? No, now MG is buffed and people demand overhaul of faction, why not just reduce the price of smoke?

I seem to recall they had a mortar and a non doc wc51 truck who could hunt down snipers without sacrificing an entire AT tier called the captain.

This thread is gold, i don't blame axis for saying US has m20. It's just another thing relic thought would be fine, let's give the faction great infantry but no indirect fire early game at all. Works great vs OKW, vs a well rounded faction? Not so much.

I fear werh more then OKW, but yeah that might be preference.

You forget riflemen did not come out of HQ in vcoh but you had to build barracks but in coh2 you get them for free

wc51 would be a great tool if it wasn't on a largely tragic doctrine and 20 fuel.

10/15 fuel would be fair i'd say. I'd consider building one at that cost if it was on my main base, if simply to assist rifles getting on flanks.

AT Gun and WC51 on main base, move AA HT to Capt. Put mortar in LT. Decrease LT to 35 fuel, increase M20 to 35 fuel.

That'd be a massive improvement to the utility of the faction, you'd add more risk to the M20 for the USF player, potential concern of earlier LT being abit much, I doubt it would make a huge difference though.

Balance is hard guys.

You forget riflemen did not come out of HQ in vcoh but you had to build barracks but in coh2 you get them for free

It also produced a jeep that didnt cost any fuel

That would contradict the American theme of mobility, versatility, and low survivability though.

Not necessarily, the wc51 truck is still pretty weak but also allows usf a early mobile vehicle that comes before 4 mins.

the USF have grenade, bar, and bazooka upgrade, and last patch the USF player rarely need any of them. This was precisely the problem.

Granted, part of the reason is the bazooka and bar are over priced, but USF can usually ignore the upgrades and just cruise straight to Sherman.

The USF should really be forced to buy some type of upgrade to keep up with the wehr. Especially since the wehr are pretty dependent on their hmg42 and lmg42.

The wehr delay the sherman by forcing the USF to buy the bars or grenade. This allow the wehr to buy the stug/pziv around the same time as the jackson/sherman, not after.

Ummm what USF have always needed bars to compete with axis infantry, maybe not early game but later on mid to late your riles are mostly useless with out bars. Zooks was kind of a luxary item but necessary for axis light vehicle spam, but nades I almost always bought you need them to take out infantry garrisoned in buildings and support weapons and now more than ever.

This has been the same for a long time now rifles don't beat grens heads up anyway I dunno who is the one with that idea to begin with cause they just don't and are majorly out classed even with bars compared to grens with 42s. Gren blobs with 42s beat para troopers. Also they frequently wipe retreating 1 or 2 models and riflemen almost never wipe a 1 model gren retreat which is kinda BS.

Right now USF is being put into a huge man power hurt, and extreme reliance on munitions and we are not getting enough to be able to deal with multiple threats at all. Also our tech cost for these things and being forced to make m20 or flak trucks almost every game is imo delaying the sherman for way too long.

Also why the F can strums dps down a emplacement that is broken as hell and makes no sense assualt engineers can't do that to bunkers. USF needs a mortar bad and not a shit one an incredibly accurate one like OST has.

Not necessarily, the wc51 truck is still pretty weak but also allows usf a early mobile vehicle that comes before 4 mins.

I think you missed the sarcasm Mittens.