US need more now.

Maybe moving the 50 cal or the morter to t0 and have it unlock with capt/litun upgrade. Even if the morter is crap at least it should have smoke so USF isnt simply dropping muni all the time just to push an MG back 5 ft.

alex posted vet and is still in denial about rifles scaling worse.

Never ceases to amaze me how biased and stupid one cam be.

The only difference is that Rifles get 10% less accuracy. But they also get received accuracy and weapon cool down before grens do.

My point is, if grens and rifles have almost exactly the same vet bonus's then why are people complaining that Rifles don't scale well?

Maybe moving the 50 cal or the morter to t0 and have it unlock with capt/litun upgrade. Even if the morter is crap at least it should have smoke so USF isnt simply dropping muni all the time just to push an MG back 5 ft.

The only difference is that Rifles get 10% less accuracy. But they also get received accuracy and weapon cool down before grens do.

My point is, if grens and rifles have almost exactly the same vet bonus's then why are people complaining that Rifles don't scale well?

They dont scale well due to their costs compared to grens. nore do they get the LMG upgrade and require upgrades for (bars, and nades). Their long range stats are also lower than grens means getting closer to grens means you are easier to get riflenaded as well as take damage just to close the distance.


Riflemen in a vacuum scale the same as grens but out in the open they dont preform to par for their costs.
I shouldnt have to tell you how the game works, the stats are there and just play with grens v riflemen. The ONLY time rifles will win is when they cut a LOS blocker and get their close range dps. Other than that they are MP sinks that dont do much.

Not it wasn't, the Scott just does 100 damage over a slightly smaller radius, but it still can 1 shot a squad very easily due to clumping. Like a half a second look in the stats could tell you this.

AP rounds per Relic was confirmed as a bug for being 240 when it should be 200. They are only supposed to increase pen.

And BAR's don't cut it? lol, all weapons that you pick up from racks have a decent chance of dropping it's to balance out being able to upgrade all your squads without restriction (other than the 2 weapon limit).

I agree that BARs and Zook upgrade should be merged and that Zooks need help, but you just play down USF's strengths and spout wrong stats in order to try and make a case that they are unplayable when they patently aren't.

Gren Vet:

Unlocks the 'Field First Aid' ability
+40% accuracy, +25% Riflegrenade range
-20% cooldown, -25% recharge time for Panzerfaust, -23% received accuracy

Rifle Vet:

Unlocks the 'Anti-Tank Rifle Grenade' ability
-23% received accuracy, -20% weapon cooldown
+30% accuracy, -50% ability recharge time, +25% grenade range

Guess grens need a vet rework to? lol

scott orignsl dmg was 120, it was reduced to 100

You have to be retarded to think that rifle and gren vet are equall

where is my quote confirming ap rounds are bug

non-upgraded rifles not being very good late game is the result of ALL non-upgraded infantry late game being underwhelming.

Most of the maps these days are CQC, meaning rifles have a distinct advantage on many of them. Honestly lately playing 2v2 it's kinda frustrating how huge an early game advantage it is for USF on many maps due to that.

buuuuut as I said before I'm totally in favor of making rifleman cheaper but toning down their dps a bit so they become a more viable weapons platform later in the game and don't bleed to hard.

and I also said already that I think USF upgrades need to be merged, but the BAR already got buffed. It's doesn't really need anymore help.

scott orignsl dmg was 120, it was reduced to 100

You have to be retarded to think that rifle and gren vet are equall

where is my quote confirming ap rounds are bug

Per the march 31st patch notes:

HMC splash damage deals 80 damage at ~1.38 radius before patch.
HMC splash damage deals 80 damage at ~1.35 radius after patch.

Almost all infantry have 80 health.

non-upgraded rifles not being very good late game is the result of ALL non-upgraded infantry late game being underwhelming.

Most of the maps these days are CQC, meaning rifles have a distinct advantage on many of them. Honestly lately playing 2v2 it's kinda frustrating how huge an early game advantage it is for USF on many maps due to that.

buuuuut as I said before I'm totally in favor of making rifleman cheaper but toning down their dps a bit so they become a more viable weapons platform later in the game and don't bleed to hard.

and I also said already that I think USF upgrades need to be merged, but the BAR already got buffed. It's doesn't really need anymore help.

Again, where is my quote? also to think that rifle and gren vet are equall makes you look stupid.

Also I already proved you wrong about the scott nurf

stop bullshitting

But rifles beat grens in long range firefights if both dont have any upgrades, so is it the LMG42 or the supporting mg42/sniper that is the death of Rifles after the "early game"

Again, where is my quote? also to think that rifle and gren vet are equall makes you look stupid.

Also I already proved you wrong about the scott nurf

stop bullshitting

They reduced the 1 shot radius by .3 lmao. Jesus dude.

And Grens and Rifles work like this

Without upgrades at all ranges Rifles > Grens

With upgrades Rifles > Grens at short range Grens > Rifles at long range.

A rifle squad with 1 1919 will be about equal with a vetted LMG gren squad, two 1919's will always beat a gren squad at any range.

Hardly seems like that big of a problem for US when Rifles walk all over grens (and volks) at the start of the game.

They reduced the 1 shot radius by .3 lmao. Jesus dude.

And Grens and Rifles work like this

Without upgrades at all ranges Rifles > Grens

With upgrades Rifles > Grens at short range Grens > Rifles at long range.

A rifle squad with 1 1919 will be about equal with a vetted LMG gren squad, two 1919's will always beat a gren squad at any range.

Hardly seems like that big of a problem for US when Rifles walk all over grens (and volks) at the start of the game.

Is that with Gren LMG upgrade. Also u cant rly use the m1919 as its an commander ability not a standard upgrade like the 42.

Is that with Gren LMG upgrade. Also u cant rly use the m1919 as its an commander ability not a standard upgrade like the 42.

The 1919 is essentially just an LMG 42 stat wise, and yes I meant by "upgraded" grens with LMG42.

BAR's up the close and mid range DPS of a rifle squad, making it so on close range maps they can own even harder. Honestly the big problem with USF is lack of more starting unit diversity rather than rifleman being bad.

If you really wanted to "fix" rifles the best way to do it would be as I said earlier, make them worse early game but better late game by giving them a cost decrease. So they no longer bulldoze Volks/Grens early game, but don't bleed the USF player to death later in the game.

The .50 cal has much, much better suppression now and the Maxim did get the same buff other MG's got to shooting at larger squads meaning the maxim can suppress Volks and Fuss on the first burst.

The thing is; this is fine. And USF is fine to.

This is unfortunately not right. The maxim is bugged and didn't receive any of the changes made. Relic clarified this yesterday in their stream and stated that it is a bug that will be addressed in the future.

This is unfortunately not right. The maxim is bugged and didn't receive any of the changes made. Relic clarified this yesterday in their stream and stated that it is a bug that will be addressed in the future.

Yeah I know I stated that earlier in the thread.

Game should be made around counters so when I'm playing soviets and I go for M3, OST can get Scout Car.
If I go for T2 and I want to get maxim but then I see HMG42, I cancel Maxim and pick up mortar.
When I see SU T1, I pick up OKW Rep station.

And on... and on...

Infantry->HMG->Mortar->Infantry this is classic food chain.

Infatry->Tanks->AT Guns/TD->Infantry, again classic food chain.

Such design allows you to react to enemy's moves.

So when I see 17/251 I pick up ZiS/Guards/Su76 etc.

M3? There is always Raketen.

But there is one problem. All factions have bigger or smaller holes in this CoH2 food chain which is agasint rock-paper-scissors design.

For example:

USF cannot counter HMGs becasue they lack mortars. Same thing about OKW, but since yoy don't see 50cal to often and Maxim is not hard to deal with, this problem is not raised up to the light.

USF and SU cannot counter JPIV/Ele/JT becasue they don't have AT infantry (which is classic design that pure TD should be countered by AT inf).

There are plenty holes like that. Bigger, like lack of mortar for OKW/USF or smaller becasue there are units that allow you to counter but they are not designed counter.

Iv seen the .50 cal in every single game Iv played against USF since the new patch. I don't really understand the argument of it being very hard to counter "but that's okay because dumb players don't use it".

M3? There is always Raketen.

More like there is always your Puppchen missing it's first shot and then getting wiped.

USF and SU cannot counter JPIV/Ele/JT becasue they don't have AT infantry (which is classic design that pure TD should be countered by AT inf).

AT guns? The JT also has a stun mechanic that means 1 zook squad hitting it can stun lock it. The Elefant tho is a different story. The JPIV can be frontally penned even by the humble 57mm if it used AP rounds

Iv seen the .50 cal in every single game Iv played against USF since the new patch. I don't really understand the argument of it being very hard to counter "but that's okay because dumb players don't use it".



More like there is always your Puppchen missing it's first shot and then getting wiped.



AT guns? The JT also has a stun mechanic that means 1 zook squad hitting it can stun lock it. The Elefant tho is a different story. The JPIV can be frontally penned even by the humble 57mm if it used AP rounds

I havent seen 50cal even once.
Miss? I just made a test. 7/10 git the target, but it does not matter. Point is, there is 0:00 AT option agasint M3. It's designed and it's there. But there is nothing to hard counter HMGs.

I havent seen 50cal even once.
Miss? I just made a test. 7/10 git the target, but it does not matter. Point is, there is 0:00 AT option agasint M3. It's designed and it's there. But there is nothing to hard counter HMGs.

OKW has the least starting MP of any faction, meaning that it being mandatory to build a puppchen as early as possible is hard.

Regardless; the fact that you have played against awful players doesn't mean the .50 cal is bad. LT is still the most meta USF officer, and the .50 cal is in the LT tier. There is no reason not to get 1 anymore.

the m8a1 isn't enough because its autofire only have 60 range, and the its 3 shell barrage takes 60 seconds to reload.

It's an excellent mobile artillery for killing mobile blob, but its short range and weak barrage make it ill suited for busting down fortified position.

the pack howizter supporsed to be USF's counter to a camping wehr, but it's just too crap for the job.

the .50cal is decent, but still vulnerable to the usual mg counter. It can handle the mg42 but it is not a hard counter. mg42 vs .50cal mostly come down to get the first shot in.

OKW has the least starting MP of any faction, meaning that it being mandatory to build a puppchen as early as possible is hard.

Regardless; the fact that you have played against awful players doesn't mean the .50 cal is bad. LT is still the most meta USF officer, and the .50 cal is in the LT tier. There is no reason not to get 1 anymore.

No one said it's mandatory, but it makes life easier.
Just like no one said you must get mortar if you see HMG, but again, it will make your life easier.

And where I said that 50cal is a bad? Come on... Contrary... I said that it's almost as much painful for OKW as HMG42 for USF because they do not have early hardcounters but since you don't see 50cal as often as HMG, and even if you do, it's only 1, not 2, it's not that big deal for OKW.

Still, 17/251 is great to deal with support weapons.

ZERO. You have zero USF games and have the audacity to claim its a l2p issue..

You people are trying me, it impossible to be nice on these forums when people who have no clue what they are talking about tries to tell others they don't.

play ONE USF GAME. JUST ONE.

again, the USF faction is incomplete based on the reasons I gave above.

To be fair you have hardly any games as Axis yet you're quick to lecture others on how they're "not using the axis armies right"...

Talk about a hypocrite...


USF are fine