Remove free lieutenant

Paul.A.D does.

Obviously I'm being hyperbolic. OMGPOP had something like a +68 streak since WFA launch.

Yea, in first week, before elite rifles were nerfed, before jesuskubel and before OKW muni income buff.

OMGPOP! has a 20 strak with OKW in 1v1. NERF!

How soon do you get the 50 fuel in 1v1?

Given that also you will want an Ambulance and at least one weapon upgrade around the same time.


And someone going Lt into Light Vehicles is going to have very soft at for a long time

Soft AT against what exactly? Apart from a flak truck rush by OKW, there isnt anything that could be fielded to require any substantial AT by the time an M20 is out, which is why LT rushing is the meta.

There needs to be a change on USF teching in general, the reason literally all top players go LT over Captain is the insane shock value you get. At that point, you can have an RE, 3 rifle squads, and an LT on the field in the time Ostheer can reasonably pull out 2 Grens and 2 MGs. Ost teching actually requires the retreat or purchase of a pioneer and time invested, and they aren't getting a free shock value unit out of it.

Combine the LT with the relatively quick M20, and its pretty easy to see why top 1v1 players have insane USF streaks over 50.

+1!

I feel like the officers should be purchased separately from tech itself. It seems kind of dumb to me that USF gets access to free riflemen (which is exactly what LT/captain are), just for unlocking the ability to use more units.

If relic just HAS to give the USF free units for tech, what if we replaced the LTs bar with a bazooka, which would would give USF T1 a light defense against flackHT, while not giving USF access to a powerful infantry unit so quickly in the game. OR, we could increase the unlock time of LT tech by 30sec - 1min to give ostheer players more time to prepare for the m20/LT combo.

I feel like the officers should be purchased separately from tech itself. It seems kind of dumb to me that USF gets access to free riflemen (which is exactly what LT/captain are), just for unlocking the ability to use more units.

If relic just HAS to give the USF free units for tech, what if we replaced the LTs bar with a bazooka, which would would give USF T1 a light defense against flackHT, while not giving USF access to a powerful infantry unit so quickly in the game. OR, we could increase the unlock time of LT tech by 30sec - 1min to give ostheer players more time to prepare for the m20/LT combo.

You can stop trying to hide the fact that you are a USF Fanboy,comm. Embrace it. Own it.

You dont have to appease these noobs with those bullshit suggestions. the LT himself is fine. You can have an LMG or a flamer at the same time LT comes out. Ost also gets snipers,MGs,LMG Grens mines...for fucks sake they have more tools than anyone.


The real issue with USF and OST is how early the M20 can arrive in relation to its natural ostheer predator,the 222. Make the M20 25-35 fuel.
Lower BP1 tech cost to 35 fuel,make 222 upgrade automatic.

Matchup fix'd. USF nerfed.

But damnit if you nerf USF you better fucking nerf the STUG E and mech assault/tiger callin meta into the ground.

Fairly simple fix for this. Make officer a separate purchase from tech, and make the OKW heal's truck need an upgrade for medics and repairs truck need an upgrade for the repairs.

Not much you would do with the Schwer, as you would need to add a new model to remove the flak cannon.

Personally I would love all faction to get Ostheer teching (+ something extra like Lt, Med, and somthething for Ost ans Sov as an upgrade to the building).
Asymetrical design is pudding unless you are gradening awesome at balancing games (well... Relic is not).
Im playing RTS games for year and best were the ones with mirror design.

Maybe the commissar commander for soivets is part of the new content relic teased us about, I would like some sort of officer unit for the russians. NOT ONE STEP BACK COMRADES!

I honestly dont understand why people are so fond of making mass balance complaints, yet provide zero replays on how to actually improve..

I mean in the end bitching about balance is going to make you simply frustrated. Relic pretty much completely ignores these forums when it comes to balance. They mainly rely on their own data pulling machine thingy, and also the alpha testers.

Instead of bitching about something that perhaps wont get fixed for months, perhaps it is better to actually try and figure out a strat how to counter it? Provide replays?


As for the "lull time" in USF teching , it does exist. A very short one, but it does exist. It happens once the ostheer player gets 60 munitions and gets a flamethrower. When that happens, it usually ends up being like this RE, 3 rifles, LT in production, 3 grens + mg + flamer pio.

This theoretically gives the ostheer player a short time frame in where he can push, or atleast gain some map control. I actually dont retreat my flamer pios, unless they get low health, i build a second pio once i research T2.

You have no reason to not buy flamers in the early game againts USF, you can easily get a second pio sweeper later on if you suspect m20 mines or democharges.

http://www.coh2.org/replay/33950/giap-vs-bartonpl-g3

Look at this game. Although map plays an important role, Barton gets REKT at 5 minute mark, and you can't point out a big mistake on Barton macro and micro management. When M20 come in and Giap mans it with REs and uses Bazookas to counter the 222 the game is pretty much over. Compare teching lulls in this game. Another thing is you need muni for 1)222 2)Medics 3)Flamer early game, and each one delays the other considering that more field presence on the USF side means less map control for Ostheer thus lower income.

That being said, I totally agree with your #Adapt argument. We are stuck with this situation for god knows how long (forever maybe) so we have to watch replays and ask for help from good players.

...
The real issue with USF and OST is how early the M20 can arrive in relation to its natural ostheer predator,the 222. Make the M20 25-35 fuel.
Lower BP1 tech cost to 35 fuel,make 222 upgrade automatic.

Matchup fix'd. USF nerfed.

But damnit if you nerf USF you better fucking nerf the STUG E and mech assault/tiger callin meta into the ground.

I totally agree with a huge 222 buff. One might say it might overperform versus soviets but it wouldn't. 222 also needs armor buff, but HP nerf IMO. One Oorah is enough even for a well microd 222. Guards and PTRS Cons is GG. I want 222 SC to deflect small arms, right now even a BAR squad can wreck it. Increase it's fuel cost if needed.

tellers can make a usf player very sad. eh cookiez?

I feel like the officers should be purchased separately from tech itself. It seems kind of dumb to me that USF gets access to free riflemen (which is exactly what LT/captain are), just for unlocking the ability to use more units.

If relic just HAS to give the USF free units for tech, what if we replaced the LTs bar with a bazooka, which would would give USF T1 a light defense against flackHT, while not giving USF access to a powerful infantry unit so quickly in the game. OR, we could increase the unlock time of LT tech by 30sec - 1min to give ostheer players more time to prepare for the m20/LT combo.

Its kind of dumb that OKW gets free super defensive emplacement, free medics and free repair station.

Its not the issue with USF, its the issue with new factions teching, which grants immense benefits at total cost of ZERO in comparison to vanila armies.

Fairly simple fix for this. Make officer a separate purchase from tech, and make the OKW heal's truck need an upgrade for medics and repairs truck need an upgrade for the repairs.

Not much you would do with the Schwer, as you would need to add a new model to remove the flak cannon.

Oh yes, can't wait for a T1 100mp 10/20 fuel and super faster M20/halftrack push!! If your remove the lieutnant/captain, you also remove its cost

I think we should delay T1 instead of removing luitenent and see how that goes first.

The whole 50 fuel luitenant vs 80 fuel captain is relic from alpha when the captain had all the light vehicles. It makes absolutely no sense for one to be more expensive then the other since neither gives you access to superior units and if anything the luitenent tier is better. 65 for both would be all around more balanced.

I think we should delay T1 instead of removing luitenent and see how that goes first.

The whole 50 fuel luitenant vs 80 fuel captain is relic from alpha when the captain had all the light vehicles. It makes absolutely no sense for one to be more expensive then the other since neither gives you access to superior units and if anything the luitenent tier is better. 65 for both would be all around more balanced.

That actually sounds reasonable and logical.

Therefore relic will ignore it and move on.

I agree something needs to be done about this.

USF teching doesn't make sense in soo many ways but the free LT is by no means an issue. Ostheer has plenty to deal with lt, they struggle vs the light vehicles that follow..

LT being 60 and Cap being 70 fuel makes alot more sense.

I think we should delay T1 instead of removing luitenent and see how that goes first.

The whole 50 fuel luitenant vs 80 fuel captain is relic from alpha when the captain had all the light vehicles. It makes absolutely no sense for one to be more expensive then the other since neither gives you access to superior units and if anything the luitenent tier is better. 65 for both would be all around more balanced.

This is a good idea.

If we are going to change teching for USF then we need to look at all other armies as well. Why stop at only USF then?