Early game for Ost

op is right and I have said the exact same thing many times about this situation and I will elaborate further.

Basically what happens most games is that Ostheer is forced to tech to get out either a 222, a PAK or a shrek squad to deal with the light armor. Therefore as a result, Ostheer can only really get up to 4 Tier 1 units including the pio. Any more and the m20/HT will mostly likely do a number on you before your tech is even up. US forces in comparison at the same time have 1 RE, 3 Rifles, LT and M20/HT.

As a result the US forces will always be one step ahead of there Ostheer counterparts, having a higher chance of winning engagements because of the extra squad and in turn having more territory. This also makes it much easier to then tech up to a major for shermans. Now compared that to the ostheer tech to 3 which is painfully slow.

Also a side note is that rifles have smoke grenades which are incredible powerful if used correctly. I would increase the cool down on this ability or make them more expensive.

Free lieutenant is most absurd thing.BAR and thompson free for 5 man squad...noob designer who thought of this while giving usf ultra cheap teching.
Lieutenant should cost a hefty amount in MP.
Make m20 come abt 2 mins later or reduce ost teching cost and time to t2.

What hans said is correct. The M20 and AA HT are simply too good againts ostheer.


Then again, the tiger, STUG e and even PAK 40s are too good vs USF too. Tiger ace is practically an IWIN button.

Right now the USF vs OST matchup is basically USF has an extreme early game advantage, but in the lategame USF just stands no chance. Even a single PIV is almost impossible to deal with as USF if the ostheer player uses his PAK 40s correctly. Hell, if you go CAS you dont even need tanks, just spam LMG grens + flamers and PAK 40s. USF cant do anything.


IMO lieut should be increased to 60 fuel as a minimum. Rifle company flamers also need to probaly get nerfed in some way.

This matchup still needs alot of work. Delaying M20 and AA HT needs to come first, then the ostheer late game needs to get nerfed with somehow making the pak 40 TWP less OP, tiger and stug E need a nerf againts infantry.. But then you have soviets which are another huge can of worms... Probaly need to nerf mark target to give like 100% accuracy againts the tank + 20-30% increased pen instead of 35% increased damage. IS-2 needs to get nerfed in some way as well (probaly).


Rifle scaling needs to be adjusted as well, somehow. They are too good in the earlygame, but in the lategame they just die like flies..


USF right now is too extreme. Too good early game and too weak lategame.


One thing i would do is reduce the MP cost of ostheer teching. Maybe swap the battlephase costs with the building costs.

What do you mean not be seen again? it would greatly diversify the usf tech tree by adding AI into the captain tree and AT into the lt tree without having to worry about the m20 having to much impact.

The only other alternative is to nerf the armour of the m20 into the ground. Also their is no good reason for the usf to have an unit on the field that cannot be countered.

Diversify?
In what way?
Why would I want Stuart over M15 like... ever? Its better AT then stuart and its amazing AI as well, it have better chances against Puma then Stuart.
Why would I want M20 much later, when field if littered with hardcounters? Much cheaper 222 hardcounters it single handedly and arrives at similar time. HMG incendiary rounds hardcounter it and HMG doesn't have problems with getting to vet1 right now.
At long range it does pitiful damage(lower then 221, comparable to conscripts) and at close range you have pfausts.

M20 is a shock unit. Take it away from it and you might just as well take it from the game.

Diversify?
In what way?
Why would I want Stuart over M15 like... ever? Its better AT then stuart and its amazing AI as well, it have better chances against Puma then Stuart.
Why would I want M20 much later, when field if littered with hardcounters? Much cheaper 222 hardcounters it single handedly and arrives at similar time. HMG incendiary rounds hardcounter it and HMG doesn't have problems with getting to vet1 right now.
At long range it does pitiful damage(lower then 221, comparable to conscripts) and at close range you have pfausts.

M20 is a shock unit. Take it away from it and you might just as well take it from the game.

Right now the 'shock' unit combined with free LT has shut down ost earlygame.So shock has gone overboard.
222 doesn't hardcounter it at all...this is because ..u need upgrade...t2 comes later than m20...bazooka crew lols@any attempt to try and finish it off...a clever player will crew m20 with RE and get bazooka squad often to accompany it...can laymines to 1 shot222 if it wants...pzfausts are usually useless due to small range and slow animation plus m20 crew repair asap.
mg42..needs vet..long animation..unless enemy is noob its not going to work..he'll move out of range or arc easily.
On top americans will not only outnumber you they will also outgun you.Its hilarious where usf is designed to have BOTH quantitative and qualitative superiority over ost for fun.

Diversify?
In what way?
Why would I want Stuart over M15 like... ever? Its better AT then stuart and its amazing AI as well, it have better chances against Puma then Stuart.
Why would I want M20 much later, when field if littered with hardcounters? Much cheaper 222 hardcounters it single handedly and arrives at similar time. HMG incendiary rounds hardcounter it and HMG doesn't have problems with getting to vet1 right now.
At long range it does pitiful damage(lower then 221, comparable to conscripts) and at close range you have pfausts.

M20 is a shock unit. Take it away from it and you might just as well take it from the game.

littered with hardcounters? its only 30 frigging fuel more or 1:30 min more. and lets us not forget the cpt is the counter to the many LV's that could defeat the m20.

edit: wrong thread, correct post below



Lol I keep imagining the pz3 having the same lines as the hotchkiss from coh1. It'd be epic. Maybe use the ostruppen voice actor.

That sounds great as well!

Soviets have their own issues of overperforming units (Guards, Molotovs thrown during supression)

lolol

this issue didn't exist when the 251 flammpanzerwagen spewed liquid delete across the map.

this issue didn't exist when the 251 flammpanzerwagen spewed liquid delete across the map.

I've heard about the 251 flamer in the ancient legends...

this issue didn't exist when the 251 flammpanzerwagen spewed liquid delete across the map.

I think the flamer 251 should have a comeback with a heavy damage decrease.
Let's say every pipe does about 1/3 less damage but the flamer comes back at T2.

I think the flamer 251 should have a comeback with a heavy damage decrease.
Let's say every pipe does about 1/3 less damage but the flamer comes back at T2.

lolol this confirms the community really has lost touch with this unit. Thats how rarely it ever gets built. High five, did you know the flame damage was nerfed quite significantly far before it was locked away into oblivion of t3?

http://www.coh2-stats.com/flame_throwers/halftrack_flammenwerfer_right_mp

Burst duration is half that of a kv8 but atleast triple that of a pio/CE squad.

It has the lowest damage of all flamethrowers in game of 10, compared to the kv8s 16 and pio/engineer 13.
But fortunately to make up for this it has 2 flamethrowers. The 251 is pretty lightly armored so simply removing the asinine t3 restriction wouldn't be the end of the world. Its in no way OP.

lolol this confirms the community really has lost touch with this unit. Thats how rarely it ever gets built. High five, did you know the flame damage was nerfed quite significantly far before it was locked away into oblivion of t3?

Yeah, I know.
But I've also been playing since Alpha and I know how the flame HT rush was back in the days
It was like 'Yeah I build a second pio, screw T1, built T2, flame 251 -> gg'.
Sure, it was a hell of fun because it was one of the few times when soviets had huge problems countering a flamer car after 5 minutes and there was absolutely nothing they could do against it because every attempt to throw a AT grenade resulted in a completely burned down group of cons

it's maps maps maps.

to this point, i'd like to argue that with coh1, balance was arguably "better" due to the literature available, especially map specific guides, which are sorely lacking in this iteration. even simply having the discussions with LEMON and Lenny on strategy, gives the entire faction more of fighting chance.

Noted.


Lienne Forest was well received and we hope to do some more but it's had 3,000 views.

Tank Hunters and Mobile Defence came out the same week and have had 7,000 and 5,000 - which suggest that straight Commander Guides are more popular.


This is however why I try to add sections on maps to the guides I do

Noted.


Lienne Forest was well received and we hope to do some more but it's had 3,000 views.

Tank Hunters and Mobile Defence came out the same week and have had 7,000 and 5,000 - which suggest that straight Commander Guides are more popular.


This is however why I try to add sections on maps to the guides I do

If you would like help. I love to write. I would just need to know what to write. I'm no strategic expert, or at least wouldn't be comfortable with my word being taken as formal advice.

I have some samples in the state office:

http://www.coh2.org/topic/33527/more-help-against-soviets
http://www.coh2.org/topic/33404/is-it-always-a-struggle
http://www.coh2.org/topic/33779/have-dinner-before-you-play...-seriously

Right now the 'shock' unit combined with free LT has shut down ost earlygame.So shock has gone overboard.
222 doesn't hardcounter it at all...this is because ..u need upgrade...t2 comes later than m20...bazooka crew lols@any attempt to try and finish it off...a clever player will crew m20 with RE and get bazooka squad often to accompany it...can laymines to 1 shot222 if it wants...pzfausts are usually useless due to small range and slow animation plus m20 crew repair asap.
mg42..needs vet..long animation..unless enemy is noob its not going to work..he'll move out of range or arc easily.
On top americans will not only outnumber you they will also outgun you.Its hilarious where usf is designed to have BOTH quantitative and qualitative superiority over ost for fun.

Agreed. Hit it right on the mark.

Any word from the devs/Cynthia on this? Can you guys at least tell if you've read this thread?

They cannot reveal if they have read it or not due to NDA. But they are excited about it.

Right now the 'shock' unit combined with free LT has shut down ost earlygame.So shock has gone overboard.
222 doesn't hardcounter it at all...this is because ..u need upgrade..

Just wanted to point out Armored Skirts. Without it the M20 will die to Pios. It too is an upgrade that costs alot of Early Muni that also gets Countered by the 222 upgrade.

M20 coming early is problematic on open maps. Not so much on urban maps. And ever see it trying to kill something in Green cover? LOL

Im more afraid of AA Truck than M20. You can faust M20 and finish it with MG.

Fausting AA is almost impossible and you need well placed MG with vet or Pak (to keep it at distance) and double pak for instakill.