PGrens with double panzerschrecks against USF

Jesus people, you need to get out and play more. Have any of you seen Festung Armor in a competitive game at even a semi-decent level used successfully? Me neither.
OKW Pak 43 is more viable for two simple reasons: A, you can build it next to the Schwere Panzer Headquarters, and B, OKW fortified, unlike Festung Armor, will not preclude you from getting heavy armour of your own. I've played quite a bit of OH 1s recently (sometimes I feel masochistic) and the IS-2 is a major problem. Just about the only thing that effectively neutralises it is the Ele. However, an Ele is not gonna do much ie. on Semois/La Gleize/Stalingrad etc. Tigers with Paks/Tellers are the next best thing and can contain it, but they are by no means reliable, the IS-2 with its ridonculous frontal armour is just more survivable and a good deal more effective in terms of anti-vehicle capability.

Tiger can't really do much most of the time to is-2 even with pak support.is-2 plus zis beats tiger-pak unfortunately.
Pak43 works well vs is-2 in bigger gamemodes,but not 1 vs 1.Panther-elefant are ur primary hopes.
Riegels are useful.
I like double or triple packing tellers if using muni conversion doc or floating lategame.

Dude PGs don't always get one shoted, it is all dependent on RNG. PGs have the same chance of being one shotted as Obers, Assault Engineers, RE.

120 munitions loss in 1 shot is a kick to the nuts for ostheer.

It's so fun and interesting to see how all the usual suspects will twist themselves into pretzels to try and call every single unit Axis has OP.

120 munitions loss in 1 shot is a kick to the nuts for ostheer.

So is losing 120 muni Paratroopers with Airborne commander too, I don't think the problem is the PG. I heard others discuss a function to spread the formation of a squad to prevent wipes, this is the answer.

So is losing 120 muni Paratroopers with Airborne commander too, I don't think the problem is the PG. I heard others discuss a function to spread the formation of a squad to prevent wipes, this is the answer.

The function to spread formation is needed by every single unit in the game, but it doesn't solve Pgrens and other Ostheer infantry being stuck at only 4 men.

a formation change button is impossible at this point as the formation cannot be changed in game.

a doable solution is to reduce the kill range and increase the damage range of all AoE.

#Toxic Kappa

OKW isn't late game ammo starved, but that hardly matters when the entire rest of the game your disparately hoping you get more shreks out. And I was talking about Ostheer by the way.




Don't send LMG Para's to be attack KT's? The issue with Pgrens is that they are meant to be good mobile anti-tank, but the suck ass against tanks, that aren't tank destroyers.

And PZGrenadiers are not meant to counter HE Shermans that are completely undistracted, loaded with HE, ready to blast those grenadiers away! Saying they should kill those Shermans (the 1 hit kill all the time is complete nonsense btw) is like saying an AT gun should kill a Luchs if the Luchs is behind it; no, it should be creamed.

Nobody cares if you pay 120 munitions or 200 or 500, the unit does what it does. Axis already has enough pay more to get far more units like the King Tiger who always kill more than what they are worth with minimal micro. Why do you want to charge anti-infantry vehicles headfirst (yes the Sherman is one, there is no truly dedicated anti-infantry vehicle in the game, and that would be silly anyway) using infantry, and expect to win? No you should be creamed and be ridiculed for how terrible your choice was.

The proper way to use these Panzergrenadiers is on the defensive; cover your AT guns with them, use Ambush Camoflauge if you can, or charge at the enemy tinpot tanks when they are distracted and annihilate them anyway. You want to charge headfirst and kill the enemy with no distraction and minimal losses in a blob, and then you get upset when I call you out on it.

Panzergrenadiers are absolutely fine, stop hijacking the thread and talk about how it is unfairly good against USF, which is the case with their tinpot vehicles and zero room for error. If it were up to me Panzerschrecks would be a doctrinal unlock: They aren't integral for faction design at all and are better than all the stuff that take CPs like G43, Conscript PTRS, AT Grenade Assault at their role. Probably could list more but you get the gist.

And if you really, really must complain about Panzergrenadiers, make a seperate thread talking about how they are bad anti-infantry, which they are.

So is losing 120 muni Paratroopers with Airborne commander too, I don't think the problem is the PG. I heard others discuss a function to spread the formation of a squad to prevent wipes, this is the answer.

Can't remember last time the last time i saw para squad being one shotted,laughable comparison.

It's so fun and interesting to see how all the usual suspects will twist themselves into pretzels to try and call every single unit Axis has OP.

Kind of like how you will try and call every single unit Axis has UP?

On topic: 1 panzerschrek for 120 munis would be completely retarded. A schrekked up PGren will still not counter armor on its own, it'll just be support for PaKs (which I think is a great role). If you seriously lose tanks to just PGrens the problem is with you.

Kind of like how you will try and call every single unit Axis has UP?

On topic: 1 panzerschrek for 120 munis would be completely retarded. A schrekked up PGren will still not counter armor on its own, it'll just be support for PaKs (which I think is a great role). If you seriously lose tanks to just PGrens the problem is with you.

Iv said exactly 1-2 Axis units so far are under powered, we just happen to be in a thread about one!

^Well it's been discussed to death, but I absolutely disagree on PGrens being UP, I love to use them as Wehr.

It's less of a thing specific to Pgrens, but the whole 4 man squad bullshit makes it a lot harder on Ostheer due to how easy it is to get squad wiped in this ultra high DPS/squad bunching meta.

If Pgrens didn't die so easy then they wouldn't be UP in my opinion, their damage out put is excellent and they are a good all round unit.

Either grens or pzgrens need 5 men if mg42 stays more or less same.They can adjust dps to remain same.Take away a shreck from pzgrens-whatever.

Can't remember last time the last time i saw para squad being one shotted,laughable comparison.

Maybe its a sign that you should play USF (or Allies) more instead of Osth all the time

a formation change button is impossible at this point as the formation cannot be changed in game.

a doable solution is to reduce the kill range and increase the damage range of all AoE.

Good suggestion would be nice to see it in game, squad disappearing is simply annoying, or they could also increase the HP of Ostheer infantry units and remove in exchange the received accuracy multiplier from them.

I'm no pro but I always get 2 pgrens. Generally once t2 goes up I go pgrens pak pgren. Whichever vets quicker I'll leave vanilla and get shreks on the other. Vanilla to flank infantry and Shrek supports.

Saying a single pgren should counter a Sherman is silly. They hard counter lights and soft counter mediums. They should never lead an advance. Everyone knows they're squishy. They could use a bit of help on the ai side, but not much. Maybe a bit more armor/rcvd accuracy or something, but then they might just be op. Pq said by the numbers they were borderline op. I think they are great, and very expensive to lose. So don't use them in ways they can be easily wiped. With shreks they are support, not the vanguard.

Are Shermans dedicated AI units? No they are not. They are versatile AI/AT units. Pzgrens shouldn't counter a unit like AAHT, but they should be able to counter Shermans. The main problem is high risk of One-shot squad wipe. One HE shot and BAM, they're dead. Fix this and they perform fine against vehicle. keep in mind that they are terrible vs infantry.

Please check the Pen of HE rounds. Then check the Pen of AT rounds. The best a Sherman gets is 120 Pen.In that mode they wont one shot whipe Pgrens. In HE mode it can as it has 0 Pen without this cooldown.

Jackson is an AT tank. Sherman is an AI tank that can help with AT sometimes through flanking or good RNG. Its primary claim to fame is AI. Its an AI tank. Because thats what its best at by design.

That is the best tank the USF has for cost imho because it is flexible. It can do both. One better then the other...

Please check the Pen of HE rounds. Then check the Pen of AT rounds. The best a Sherman gets is 120 Pen.In that mode they wont one shot whipe Pgrens. In HE mode it can as it has 0 Pen without this cooldown.

Jackson is an AT tank. Sherman is an AI tank that can help with AT sometimes through flanking or good RNG. Its primary claim to fame is AI. Its an AI tank. Because thats what its best at by design.

That is the best tank the USF has for cost imho because it is flexible. It can do both. One better then the other...

That's exactly what I'm talking about! It's a multi-role unit, mostly AI which can carry his weight vs medium armor and help other units when fighting heavier units, it performs well against Puma,Ostwin,Stug and even PzIV. But it's HE round have a great potential to insta-wipe entire squads, that's messed up. With the new cover system, those poor Pzgren bastards die the moment they take cover. So I'm not arguing about Sherman being OP or anything.

I'm not saying it's sherman's fault, but right now Shermans are hard counters of their soft counter (Pzgrens). Pzgrens are also very expensive (teching, MP, and 120 freaking muni) so they have to be more viable against Medium armor.

That's exactly what I'm talking about! It's a multi-role unit, mostly AI which can carry his weight vs medium armor and help other units when fighting heavier units, it performs well against Puma,Ostwin,Stug and even PzIV. But it's HE round have a great potential to insta-wipe entire squads, that's messed up. With the new cover system, those poor Pzgren bastards die the moment they take cover. So I'm not arguing about Sherman being OP or anything.

I'm not saying it's sherman's fault, but right now Shermans are hard counters of their soft counter (Pzgrens). Pzgrens are also very expensive (teching, MP, and 120 freaking muni) so they have to be more viable against Medium armor.

Sherman does to Pgrens what Tigers/P4s/Stugs to a lesser degree/Brummbars/Luchs/Ostwinds do to Bazooka squads. I see no real issue with this. The Sherman being what the Sherman is defines the USFs core advantage. Flexibility.
The Sherman is best at AI. I would classify it personally as an AI tank. Thus not cost effective to counter with Infantry. And the sole reason its justified Pound for Pound Axis tanks have better armor and AT ability.

If the Infantry vs AI tank Meta needs to be adjusted then Zooks should be looked at I would think.