Remove Shreck from Volks

Relic has already said they can't change how the shrek vet works for OKW with out changing the entire veteran system (which they should do) but they won't.

I believe Kappatch 2 solved it with a simple received experience modifier for Schrecked up squads.

Jagdpanzer is better then SU-85, why should it be cheaper? Its also earliest real TD you can get. Soviets need to get 120 fuel tech costs excluding side upgrades to get SU-85, OKW only 5.
And any meaningful buff to puppchen would equal increasing its price as its cheapest AT gun atm(which wouldn't hurt OKW with their mp float at all) unless you talk bit faster aim time.

JP lacks synergy as their are non doctrine snares in the okw army making it more difficult to use.

JP lacks synergy as their are non doctrine snares in the okw army making it more difficult to use.

JP lacks synergy?

Its long range medium tank destroyer that can be surrounded by best AT infantry in game.
That means it can dish out punishment, take some and is protected by AT that actually KILLS tanks as well as(like all axis players like to say about sov) cheap mines that can be placed on flanks.
Ineffective allied handheld AT only enhances its strength as it needs to be attacked by vehicle to be countered.

If that is not synergy, then I don't know what is.

I believe Kappatch 2 solved it with a simple received experience modifier for Schrecked up squads.

At the beginning , Sturms had double shrecks as upgrade and volks had Pzfausts + an "AI upgrade" (3 MP40s lol).

It worked out quite nicely (although the AI upgrade was kinda meh). It was really refreshing to play OKW without massive shreck blobs.

Reduce volks shreck damage to bazooka level,decrease upgrade cost slightly to compensate,that way still good vs light armor,but less so vs medium armor.Buff raketen.

This would make spamming shrecks even easier. A buff will make the Raketen better, no doubt about it, but I'm not sure whether I would want to build this unit.

Until I have AT vehicles on the field I could still rely heavily on shrecks.

To make the Raketenwerfer viable without adding Pzfausts you had to buff its aim time, its durability and also its reliability. Ground seems to be its enemy no 1.

The Raketenwerfer would be a unit worth spending MP on but you'd still see lots of shrecks running around, maybe even in blobs just as before.

Alternatively decrease volks XP gain rate and shreck long range accuracy(i.e vet accuracy bonuses don't apply for shreck)

These are all "soft" changes. Reduce XP gain? You'll see vet 5 volks 5 mins later.

Reduce long range accuracy? Only makes it even more unreliable vs early vehicles.

Seriously, the problem is that Volks have shrecks.

It's not their vet gain (every unit with AT weapons vets up fast), it's not the shreck itself, it's the fact that basic infantry can simply be upgraded with the most powerful handheld AT weapon in the game. Amazing vet bonuses are just the icing on the cake.

OKW needs "hard" changes like completely removing shrecks from volks and replacing it with something else, something that every other basic infantry unit gets (except Cons ): an AI upgrade + AT nades.

Well considering how hard it is to counter scout cars + flamers as it now for OKW if you want to make that even worse you could get rid of shreks.

That's why people say Volks should get Pzfausts.

Or how about give OKW more anti medium at options other than the Jadgpanzer which costs 265 fuel (due to reduced fuel income)

What about...getting a Puma? Needs more micro but still...

Puma dies to small arms fire and is total garbage the minute the mid game comes, your just wasting your fuel. Honestly it's been said before and will be said by Relic a million time, you would need to fundamentally change a lot of stuff about OKW to get rid of the shrek crutch.

Just because shrecks have a chance to bounce of IS2 armour does not mean they are balanced, by using that logic surley the zookas which bounce of p4's are broken? When I see a King Tiger/Tiger get fielded I have to be ready for it and have acceptable AT in position (Jackson, SU-85's etc).. but OKW its just mindless volks horde that counter literally the entire allied faction. Volks should have a different upgrade (MP44? LMG34, G43?) while sturmpios should have the shreck.

Volks are cheap, low pop and when they reach vet 5 (very very easy with a shreck) they are literally unkillable unless you have a dedicated blob to deal with them, makes the current meta so boring.. every single game its the same thing with OKW.

Never said they were balanced, even gave some nerf options. And again, I am not protecting the faction, I dislike them as well. But attacking my statement out of pure frustration that is guided by a faction, is a ted overreacting

Puma dies to small arms fire and is total garbage the minute the mid game comes, your just wasting your fuel. Honestly it's been said before and will be said by Relic a million time, you would need to fundamentally change a lot of stuff about OKW to get rid of the shrek crutch.

You can't possibly believe what you've just said here.

If you lost puma to small arms that wasn't incendiary rounds HMG42, then you have some serious micro issues.
Also mid game is where light and medium armor shows up-the targets that puma have no problems with given you have more micro then a-moving 4v4 axis player.

I'll tell you: it's a lazy copy paste of ostheer unit.

This attitude is half the reason we're in this mess. People act like having any similarity is bad, even if the original is the most balanced option. So in the name of asymmetrical design, they go far out of their way to design something convoluted in the name of asymmetry. Then we end up with factions that have no Mortar, or no Machine Gun, or no Medium Tank, or can only walk, or some other ~special snowflake~ bullshit that only hurts the game.

I don't care about OKW/Ostheer heavies, I enjoy fighting them with Shermans/Jacksons/SU-85's and it feels fine, in 2v2 I have alot of fun using dedicated TD's to fight KT/Tiger/panther etc. The issue is when the vet5 volks blob with the most powerful heat seaking missile launcher in the game comes along and wipes mediums in one volley, honestly ruins games completely - this has become the meta.

For example, non-doctrine US Main deterrent to Heavy armour is a Jackson and SU is SU-85 which does no damage to infantry.. if I invest popcap/resources into Jacksons, I lose a significant amount of my anti infantry power, and I then don't have the capabilities to stop the 30 popcap 7 squad volks horde from just running through everything killing at will.

If a smaller, more fragile unit (Say sturmpio's) had the Shreck, it would be far more balanced. Ostheer have a similar unit (Panzergrens) which you have to decide whether you want a dedicated AT unit or AI unit.. not both. This change would obviously mean the Raketenwerfer 43 could receive large buffs too.

100% agree

The idea comes from Relic. Sturmpios were the ones with Schreck originally. It was changed mid-Alpha when the meta was much different and OKW had a much more severe ammo penalty.

No, I completely disagree with this. Check Sturmpio popcap and reinforce costs.

So you want 4 sturmpio squads with a schreck each? That will be more than a third of your popcap, and a 52 manpower per minute penalty included. They also reinforce at 40 per man. They would also lose some of their antiinfantry potential if they get a Schreck, and their anti infantry potential would fall off even more sharply with every squadmember down. Schrecks would be on a squishier squad that gets less defensive bonuses with veterancy.

Their versatility and utility would be a con at this point, not a pro. They can't build stuff AND detect mines AND repair stuff AND rush infantry AND attack tanks at the same time.

Maybe my games are just unlucky but the thought of going from volks to sturms with schrecks would go from a unit with a schreck that doesn't die to a unit with a schreck that dies too often.

You can't possibly believe what you've just said here.

If you lost puma to small arms that wasn't incendiary rounds HMG42, then you have some serious micro issues.
Also mid game is where light and medium armor shows up-the targets that puma have no problems with given you have more micro then a-moving 4v4 axis player.

Dies means "Is damaged by" the 50. call actually does not insignificant damage to it and combined with the Puma's low health just makes it lackluster overall.

I don't care about OKW/Ostheer heavies, I enjoy fighting them with Shermans/Jacksons/SU-85's and it feels fine, in 2v2 I have alot of fun using dedicated TD's to fight KT/Tiger/panther etc. The issue is when the vet5 volks blob with the most powerful heat seaking missile launcher in the game comes along and wipes mediums in one volley, honestly ruins games completely - this has become the meta.

For example, non-doctrine US Main deterrent to Heavy armour is a Jackson and SU is SU-85 which does no damage to infantry.. if I invest popcap/resources into Jacksons, I lose a significant amount of my anti infantry power, and I then don't have the capabilities to stop the 30 popcap 7 squad volks horde from just running through everything killing at will.

If a smaller, more fragile unit (Say sturmpio's) had the Shreck, it would be far more balanced. Ostheer have a similar unit (Panzergrens) which you have to decide whether you want a dedicated AT unit or AI unit.. not both. This change would obviously mean the Raketenwerfer 43 could receive large buffs too.

Umm No... how about don't be a noob

Shreks need long range accuracy nerf, or whatever (scatter maybe) statistic results in them being hugely accurate.

In theory, I'd actually like to see what it would be like if handheld rockets actually had slightly less range. It feels like Shermans and T34s and such very often when you tell them to attack enemy units will scoot further in range than they strictly have to before firing their shell. This makes kiting a bit more difficult than it needs to be.

Dies means "Is damaged by" the 50. call actually does not insignificant damage to it and combined with the Puma's low health just makes it lackluster overall.

The .50 cal is a 4 man squad that comes out of T2 with a recieved accuracy penalty that makes it as fragile at a soviet MG that only had 4 men left (i.e. a stiff breeze will decrew it). The Puma comes out of the OKW tier that gives you a free repair station with super engineers that repair at the speed of light.

The Puma is not seriously threatened by USF MGs. It's a very good light vehicle that is even useful later on for damaging allied mediums. It's also got smoke which makes it very survivable.

So, the puma taking damage from small arms fire means it's crap and you shouldn't bother... I guess that means the m-20 is crap too... Totally worthless lol

So, the puma taking damage from small arms fire means it's crap and you shouldn't bother... I guess that means the m-20 is crap too... Totally worthless lol

Yeah and the german scout ca…. Oh wait…




Anyway, what do you guys say about reducing volk schreck penetration dramatically at long range, so they have a rough time penetrating mediums at long range? This way screcks would not snipe medium tanks like it's nobodies business but would still be viable early game AT and close range flank support for the jagdpanzer for example.

It is a drag to play against OKW players nowadays. Shrecks penetrate Shermans and Jacksons with every shot. Kiting beacame hard and vet 3 and above Volks refuse to die to small arms fire. OKW doesnt even need to use vehicles and light tanks to counter the enemy, beacause they can survive on infrantry only and that is annoying as f*&$.

Volks with shreks is its on can of worms; the only problem I have with the shrek itself is its laser accuracy even at long range. If you slip up at all when kiting, it's an almost assured hit.

Well, one thing for sure when you fight a OKW player(s): A Kubel at your fuel point at the start of the game and a huge vet 5 Volk blob at the end of your game, A-moving to victory.