Suggested buff for MG-42

And I find it funny that you are so unnecessarily snub, post-spammy and stats-focused that it feels like trying to have a conversation with Nullist!

Except I play more. Hard not to when he wasn't playing at all.

If you have twice the stats-knowledge of Kolaris, why don't you try presenting a solution for the blob-problem people seem to agree on, rather than being a constant besserwisser?

Out of my arse idea-suppression multiplier based on number of squads in the vicinity. Pretty much squad based version of what HMG42 and 34 already have.
And done, suppression more effective against blobs, no difference against single squad, you'll still die if you aren't in green cover with your HMG or wasn't using spotter to exploit extra range, therefore no imbalance introduced while HMGs would quickly suppress groups.

There a lot of dreams on this topic, the problem with HMGs being more effective is to make it more easy to spam and lock down the map with 2 or 3 of them.
HMGs are not hard counter to blobs, they[re here to slow down blobs and give you time to reposition your line of defense. Well in that way, they are hard counter since a blob suppressed isn't really effective. HMGs + grenadiers have really good synergies, suppress a unit and riflenade it is, in my opinion, one of the best early combo you can found in this game.
So now, the issue isn't the HMG itself but the complete meta around it. Ostheer is probably lacking of something early game and too strong late game, a balance change is more than necessary here.

The propblem is yellow cover created by explosions of all types which work against the mgs. It makes them completly useless in the late midgame in contested areas. No spotter can save you when squats getting close dont get supressed before the mg is half dead.

When you talk about a group of units, say 3 rifles with bars, it still applies. Very fragile unit contributing nothing dead first, 2 other untis left which could not deal 240mp damage/forceretreat against the atackers.

** Reducing the throwing range of grenades by 50% when the thrower is suppressed. (All type of grenades from all factions) **

It seem a good compromise. It would reduce the frontal charge capacity of blobs vs HMG.

Thanks.

This, Plus removed the received accuracy debuff on crew.

There a lot of dreams on this topic, the problem with HMGs being more effective is to make it more easy to spam and lock down the map with 2 or 3 of them.
HMGs are not hard counter to blobs, they[re here to slow down blobs and give you time to reposition your line of defense. Well in that way, they are hard counter since a blob suppressed isn't really effective. HMGs + grenadiers have really good synergies, suppress a unit and riflenade it is, in my opinion, one of the best early combo you can found in this game.

It's kinda easy to say, but early game specially as Ostheer you will lose map control if you always use one of your squads as a spotter. That's why most people prefer a Gren instead of a HMG, grens also scale better and you can eventually give them LMG. HMG42 on the other hand can not do it's job mid game. When USF has 2-3 double BAR, or even worse double LMG rifles. Not to mention smoke grenade.

That's why some people suggest a debuff for blobs. It actually makes sense and can resolve a lot of issues for all 4 factions.

Suppression is fine. The problem is that in firefights against blobs vs your inf supporting the mg42, they can too easily focus fire it down.

I think this particular unit needs its accuracy received penalties removed. I'd also so the same for OKW/USF 4 man HMG squads. It would also be nice to get a minor dps buff, as they barely do any dmg against units that are garrisoned and in cover.

That's why some people suggest a debuff for blobs. It actually makes sense and can resolve a lot of issues for all 4 factions.

Blob is a hard concept to define. Is 2 squads a blob, is 3 squads, 4 squads? And how close do you consider it a blob a group of units? And how do you do at shock points? If the HMG is set up, it's done? Cannot take it before a light vehicle because the path is too narrow to avoid the blob debuff?

Ostheer has many early blob hard counter in fact. They got flammers, they go AP mines, they got HMG, they got mortar to support indirect fire. So the problem isn't how to control the blob itself, but the support to make the blob bleed when controlled.

But honestly people asking for an single HMG capable to completely stop a blob are wrong.

Blob is a hard concept to define. Is 2 squads a blob, is 3 squads, 4 squads? And how close do you consider it a blob a group of units? And how do you do at shock points? If the HMG is set up, it's done? Cannot take it before a light vehicle because the path is too narrow to avoid the blob debuff?

Ostheer has many early blob hard counter in fact. They got flammers, they go AP mines, they got HMG, they got mortar to support indirect fire. So the problem isn't how to control the blob itself, but the support to make the blob bleed when controlled.

But honestly people asking for an single HMG capable to completely stop a blob are wrong.

Blob is usually 4 squads or more.
Flamer will be gunned down even before it makes it close and use its weapon for long.Its only good for preventing flank on the mg from a single squad.
Mortar can't stop blob at all,it can cause causalities if blob stays static,which grenadiersa er far more than us who can fire BARs on the move(another poor design feature)
Ap mines with a signboard-lol.You really think someone is going to walk his blob into that?
HMG problems are well known.

Ostheer is probably lacking of something early game and too strong late game, a balance change is more than necessary here.

Don't know what you are talking about.
Ost lategame is better than USF lategame.
But against soviet,plz.
Panther is the only thing that really counters is-2 and its inaccesible.A smart soviet player will always back his is-2 with zis and then ur in shit.You may ask..why don't u get pak to counter that?Well first u have burned all ur mp teching,second is-2 can one shot pak,while panther can't do anything to zis.
Tiger will lose badly vs is-2.It also loses to t-34/85s with mark target.

In terms of elite infantry ost has none,while you will see multiple shock squads roaming the field by lategame.

In terms of artillery ,B4 is the best emplacement artillery in the game.If u didn't have recon and dive bomb ur in trouble.Katyusha is the best stock arty in the game by FAR.What do you have against this?Lefh poopshooter?Panzerwerfer firecracker?

Try playing ost more before making redundant comments.Ost lategame only looks super strong when it plays alongside OKW.

Don't know what you are talking about.
Ost lategame is better than USF lategame.
But against soviet,plz.
Panther is the only thing that really counters is-2 and its inaccesible.A smart soviet player will always back his is-2 with zis and then ur in shit.You may ask..why don't u get pak to counter that?Well first u have burned all ur mp teching,second is-2 can one shot pak,while panther can't do anything to zis.
Tiger will lose badly vs is-2.It also loses to t-34/85s with mark target.

In terms of elite infantry ost has none,while you will see multiple shock squads roaming the field by lategame.

In terms of artillery ,B4 is the best emplacement artillery in the game.If u didn't have recon and dive bomb ur in trouble.Katyusha is the best stock arty in the game by FAR.What do you have against this?Lefh poopshooter?Panzerwerfer firecracker?

Try playing ost more before making redundant comments.Ost lategame only looks super strong when it plays alongside OKW.

This might be off-topic but I kinda agree. Although with proper early game adjustments it's not gonna be that hard to counter Soviet heavies. I think the "Axis blaming" is getting out of hand. I play all four factions (except Ostheer because I'm not good) and I think despite some OKW problems (mostly blobing) things are not as bad as people say they are. The thing is "general balance" is different than "unit balance".

Miss clicked sorry

What if I told you that allies also have HMGs, like for example Maxim or DSHK and these HMGs are unable to stop even 2 squads? Or USF HMG is completely unable to stop more then 1 squad and often a single gren is enough to counter it thanks to precision strike nade.

If that 4 bar rifle is approaching HMG that isn't in green cover, its dead.
Suppressed units loose 75% of their DPS, that means there is still 25% remaining, if there are 4 squads, its like 1 unsuppressed squad with BARs is unloading at HMG. Do you believe that HMG should be able to survive it?

Its all about stats, where you bitch and whine about how axis life is unfair, I know the stats and actually understand the mechanics, so have a tissue and take this lesson.

Less hurts of buts, more knowing of mechanics, it'll do you good, so instead of acting like spoiled brat you would for once actually KNOW what you want to argue and how illogical your claims are.

You want to stop multiple units with upgrades? One HMG isn't going to cut it, because of how the game actually works, unless its in your wet dreams.

Who said anything about the HMG not being in green cover? The point I and a lot of others are trying to make you understand Titoff is that a BLOB of infantry that means multiple infantry squads grouped together or in a cluster or standing very close together, should not be able to charge a HMG and kill it head on.

Yes, I agree that if the infantry is spread out approaching from 2-3 directions to the HMG then yeah it's dead. Can you understand now WTF we are trying to say here?

If you think that a blob on infantry should be able to roam around this game and just obliterate units that are designed to use the suppression mechanic to assist countering them, then please just leave and go and play SC2.

Yes because it's designed to do that.

You may ask as well, for example, what about T70 and 3-4 Obers squads. T70 is a way cheaper but it's disgned to counter AI infantry.

Not to mention that HMG with tripod should counter LMG without any problems...

Except T-70 is a vehicle, Obers are pure AI - Obers, obviously, should be countered.
HMG is infantry, Blob is AI - not so obvious matchup, depends on size of blob and its equipment.

It should do so if you are not willing to flank it. What do you think is the purpose of a heavy machine guns? Wasting Manpower?

If you would be able to deny large areas with lonely HMGs, it would made HMG spam a viable strategy for Ost, which is, obviously, not a healthy strategy.

1) HMG have less sight range than firing range, therefore it is designed to at least have another unit as spotter.
2) MG42 is a tool of crowd control. It disables squads. It is supposed to use with units, that will perform killing and soaking damage, making possible to win engagement with less resource investment than your enemy's.

I want to say that you shouldn't expect to counter 100% of enemy army with 10% of yours.
It is okay if you can't stop 3 rifles with pair of BARs and leutenant (1040 MP, 120 MU, 50 FU) with your lonely MG42 (240 MP) even in head-on attack.

I agree that MG-42 could use a little buff, but don't justify it with your wrong usage of it.

Heavy machine guns needs total rework,specialized 300 mp plus units which are powerful and risk to lose and unable to cap.Will end the spam problem,while actually reflecting the rarity and devastating combat potential of machine guns on tripods(12 per battalion of 800 men)

Except I play more. Hard not to when he wasn't playing at all.


Out of my arse idea-suppression multiplier based on number of squads in the vicinity. Pretty much squad based version of what HMG42 and 34 already have.
And done, suppression more effective against blobs, no difference against single squad, you'll still die if you aren't in green cover with your HMG or wasn't using spotter to exploit extra range, therefore no imbalance introduced while HMGs would quickly suppress groups.

Lie like a politician, epic

Also, its funny that you mention coh1, because that was the ultimate blobbing experience with all the abilities breaking and making you immune to suppression. I find that ironically funny.

That shows you how ignorant you really are, instead of bullshiting yourself as know-it-all.
COH1 suppression breaking ability has a high risk doing it, if you dare to fire up and throw a nade at anther MG fire cone, that squad die faster than 3 Obers shooting them, and it also ignore vehicle crush evasion.

No i dont agree. what you describe is simply bad gameplay on part of the mg user. You should have a wall of infantry providing protection so they dont get shot down.

The entire point of the mg42 is a force multiplier that fails to deliver as blob can still walk right over you mg and supporting units.

What the mg42 and mg34 need is significantly better suppression against (and im talking 25%) units in the open (not against the ones in yellow or green cover)

This way full frontal blob assaults get mercilessly shot down.

As long as 50 cals and maxims get a similar buff im all for blob control

Lie like a politician, epic



That shows you how ignorant you really are, instead of bullshiting yourself as know-it-all.
COH1 suppression breaking ability has a high risk doing it, if you dare to fire up and throw a nade at anther MG fire cone, that squad die faster than 3 Obers shooting them, and it also ignore vehicle crush evasion.

Its sure great that no body in coh1 stopped to throw a grenade, fired up and sprint US blobs just ran strait past and killed it.

abilities like sprint and fired up were why I stopped playing coh1. Atleast the blobs in coh2 are at walking pace

Its sure great that no body in coh1 stopped to throw a grenade, fired up and sprint US blobs just ran strait past and killed it.

abilities like sprint and fired up were why I stopped playing coh1. Atleast the blobs in coh2 are at walking pace

I am talking about MG42 covering another MG42, you can counter any blob like this in COH1, automatic weapon (Volks MP40), bike push also deter this kind of idiotic move very effectively, which in COH2, they does not exist.

Found that on the official forum. lel.

The MG42 is weak and a liability for the Ost player, but not because of its suppression value, which I find to be satisfying for a 240 mp unit, even against blobs.

The problem is that it often doesn't get to make use of its suppression value due to dorky unit/model behavior, which
- quite often effectively doubles or even triples the tear down/up time
- causes it not to shoot for an extended period of time when the gunner dies and the next team member walks to the gun at a very leisurely pace.

Just yesterday this happened to me:
- I saw a rifle squad was going to flank me.
- I changed the facing of my MG
- when i was done setting up again, the rifle squad was right in my firing cone
- yet my MG didn't fire for like additional 2 sec because the gunner preferred to stare into space
- then it fired half a burst, but then my gunner was killed
- the next guy in line walked slowly towards the gun. Upon reaching it, the same thing happened over again.
- then I was fed up and ordered a retreat.
- upon finishing packing up, the remaining two guys stood there for a sec deciding which way to go.
- During this time the third guy was killed

I had a full health rifle squarely in the sights of a full health MG and my MG got totally owned. The rifle didn't even throw a grenade.

MG 42s are wonderful when they work. The problem is they don't do so reliably due to retarded unit/model behavior.